Steering box

[coxybabe]

Hi all,

Being new to this forum, I am hoping that there is someone that can help.

Several weeks ago, my S2000 develped a "clunk" on turning the steering wheel to the right: this clunk worsened over the following week. This clunk is easily felt through the steering wheel if the wheel is turned to the right when stationary or moving at low speed and repeats itself as the wheel is turned: there is no clunk when the wheel is turned to the left. It can also be distinctly felt at the wheel, one hane on the tyre. The clunk is also only felt with the engine on: at rest - nothing.

The main Honda concessionaire & garage looked at it and said that it was either the electronic control box or the sterring box itself. As the latter costs an arm and a leg, they took up Honda's suggestion of first replacing the electronic box to see whether that cured the problem: if not, they would take it back and supply a replacement steering box.

I picked up the car after the fitting of the electronic box, which the Honda Garage said had sorted out the problem. On driving off, I was sure that I could still detect a small clonk through the steering: I went stright back into the garage and they said that "No - all was OK and that it was usual for there to be a slight clonking noise and not to worry"!!!!!!

Now, 2 weeks later, the clonking is much, much worse and 2 local garages that have looked at the car have both said that this is definitely NOT OK and that the main concessionaire should have it back to thoroughly investigate it. The mechanic of one of the local garage (carries a Honda ticket but does not undertake the large jobs) telephoned the main Concessionaire who had fitted the new electronic box to discuss. Their reply was the same in that there was nothing to worry about and the clonking was normal.

I am not happy with this situation and must admit to being very unhappy driving this car. Have any of you on this forum had experience of problems with the steering box and/or its electronics? Or advise me on my best course of action?

Thanks in advance?

Dave

[wowowox]

maybe look for recall ? find it from the honda bulletin !
anyway it is definetely not right, but for my when i turn the steering wheel, it does make a click sound but thats just it is touching with the turn signal switch, but for u rs it is a much more bigger problem. also, there must be more than 1 honda, if this one won't fix it, go to another one and don't tell them u tried to fixed it once already, just show them what happened exactly in a differnt dealer. if this still happens, call HOnda customer service, explian to them what the dealer is doing to u and what the problem is. they will contact the dealer themself and then tell u to go over again !!

[m5spiess]

Dave,

my S2000 has never had this problem, however I'm very familiar with the steering gear of the S2000 (I'm an automotive engineer developing such components and we benchmarked the S2000 gear).

This is an electric assisted steering gear, it's actually one of the first cars on the market with this technology. It has an electric motor around the rack that assists steering by the help of a so-called "recirculating ball gear". What I recommend you to do:

1) it's definitely not the electronic control box that your dealer replaced: Electronic components do not clunk, this comes from a mechanical component.

2) determine if the clunk comes from the steering gear or from the steering column: Separate the intermediate shaft from the steering gear and rotate the steering wheel a turn to the right and a turn to the left (don't turn it more than two times and always rotate it back to the original position, otherwise you damage the clockspring in the multifunction switch!). If you hear the noise now, you are lucky and have to fix/replace the steering column (less expensive than the gear), if you don't hear the noise, well, it must be coming from the gear.

3) If you root-cause the clunk to the gear, probably you have to replace it. Don't disassemble it, this is a high-precision part that isn't serviceable. You might be lucky and find a used part on a junkyard or ebay...

good luck

Felix

[coxybabe]

Thanks to all for their replies. An update here.

After much kicking from on high (the French are renowned for their high-handed arrogance and lack of communicative skills), the dealership finally sent their mechanic down here for a patient and at length explanation of the problem.
With the engine off, there is no clunking.
With the engine on, there IS a regular clunk when turning to the right.
He removed the fuse for the power steering and there was no clunk with the engine on. His conclusion, there is no mechanical problem with steering: logically, this would seem to be correct. As soon as the fuse was replaced, the clonk returned. His conclusion, the electric motor of the pwer steering is the cause. He suggested that the rubber bearing and/or the seal, etc. of the electric motor was slightly worn, giving rise to the problem. Your views on this m5spiess would be appreciated.

When the garage had connected up their computer for diagnosis, it registered a fault with the electronic EPS and froze the computer: the only way to unfreeze it was to replace the eletronic control box. As it was impossible to ascertain whether the control box was faulty or whether a bug in their computer had caused the fault, Honda France contributed 50% of the replacement cost.

All in all a costly exercise and in hindsight, all unnecessary as we still have the original problem and 1,500 euros the poorer. C'est la vie.

Dave

[m5spiess]

Dave,

even if the fuse is removed, the motor and recirculating ballgear (the part that transmits torque from rotation of the motor into the axial displacement of the rack bar) still move when you turn the wheel - only this time driven by your own effort rather than the electric motor. You wonder now why then you only hear the clunk with powered motor? That's because the ballgear/motor/bearing parts interface slightly different if they are driven from the opposite end.

I assume you determined the clunk isn't from the steering column/intermediate shaft as I advised earlier. It might, as you suggest, come from the motor but could also come from the recirculating ballgear. You won't be able to determine this (the S2000 steering gears' inside components can not be serviced, so you have to change the complete gear (except ECU) in either case). The root cause of your problem might be some dirt in the thread of the ballgear. There is even a chance time will make the clunk disappear but I wouldn't bet on it. Fyi, getting rid of noises and clunks in such electric gears is my daily bread, our engineers sometimes work for weeks to root-cause noise issues on a newly developed steering system.

bonne chance!

Felix

[coxybabe]

Felix,
Thanks for your reply: all points noted. I am between a rock & a hard place here. A clonk like this on a high performance car is of course worrying but with the only option the complete replacement of the steering box (at over 4,000 euros!), I am reluctant to simply just change it. As the mechanic assures me that there is absolutely NO compromise of safety and coupled with the fact that the clonk is only really bad whilst turning at very low speeds, I'll just live with it in the short term and cross my fingers.

I am assured that the clunk isn't from the steering column/intermediate shaft, although pinning a French mechanic down is a non-starter. Why the French are so bolshy is beyond me but does make for difficult relationships.

Thanks again for your input - it has been very helpfulm and is much appreciated.

Best wishes from this little corner of Paradise.

Dave