BLOWN ENGINE S2000

CYCLEDEALER · 07-06-2004, 02:47 PM

Hi Guys,
I am a female 44 who owns a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Sea Doo motorcyle, atv and watercraft dealership...just to let you know Im not dumb....My 2003 S2000 with 4,910 miles just blew an engine. I was told that it happened because I was in 2nd gear at 7K rpm upshifting...it got the valves, the head and pistons.....so beware!!!! Me as a dealer cannot pull enough strings to get the labor covered under warranty and it sucks! Currious...anyone had this problem??

jweb · 07-07-2004, 02:59 AM

So how exactly do you blow an engine on an upshift that is 2k below redline? Do you mean you were told it was because you were at 7k in 2nd gear down shifting?

CYCLEDEALER · 07-08-2004, 03:17 PM

NO....I WAS IN SECOND FIXING TO UPSHIFT TO 3RD ON FLAT GROUND AND YES IT DOES RED LINE AT 9 BUT THE HONDA REP SAID YOU CANT RUN THAT HIGH RPM'S IN LOW GEARS AND THATS BULL...SO IM OUT 1K FOR LABOR AND BELIEVE ME ITS GOING UP FOR SALE...

Uncle Fester · 07-08-2004, 04:31 PM

Something's doesn't sound right here. Were you sustaining high RPMs for an entended period of time? (ie minutes?)

I believe that one of the steps Honda goes through during R&D of an engine is to take the engine and hold it at redline and see how long it can stay there. I think they either do this until it fails, or until 24 hours has passed. If it makes it the 24 hours, then the engine gets approval for this particular stress test. I could be wrong about this though.

I just don't see how the scenario you described could cause this. My best guess is that there may have been a low oil condition in the engine and something seized up causing the damage you described. Not sure...

Halo · 07-09-2004, 02:50 PM

More details please. 'Blown engine' isn't too clear to me.

There are several known problems that have caused problems in the past.
1. Spark plug recall... plugs were getting loose at OEM torque with OEM washer and this could cause a misfire but that doesn't = 'blown engine'
2. Oil jet bolts... possibly not enough oil getting to undersides of pistons and rods because of design of 00 and 01 bolts.
3. #4 cylinder failure... various reasons, mostly 00 models
4. Plugged injector... rare reports but this could cause an over lean condition on just one cylinder that that ECU would not pick up to throw a code and cause failure of that cylinder.

I can't speculate on what happenned to your engine, without knowing more. How does the dealer know how it happenned? (i.e. upshift 2-3 at high rpm... which itself sounds like nothing that would cause problems.)

A downshift from 3 to 2 near redline would definitely cause a mechanical over-rev and overheat/bent valves/broken plug fragments flying around inside the combustion chamber.

CYCLEDEALER · 07-09-2004, 03:17 PM

ALL 12 VALVES ARE GONE...THE PISTONS ARE GONE...THE HEAD IS BUSTED AND THATS ALL IVE BEEN TOLD. THIS WAS NORMAL DRIVING CONDITIONS IN MY EYES. YOU PULL OUT ON THE HIGHWAY IN 1ST GEAR GET UP TO ABOUT 5K RPMS THEN SHIFT 2 2ND AND GOT UP TO 7K RPMS JUST FIXING TO GO TO 3RD AND THIS WAS IN APPX ABOUT 1/4 OR SO MILES. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT. IT DID NOT IDLE GOOD THAT MORNING ON THE WAY TO WORK AND IT DID NOT IDLE GOOD ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK BUT IT WAS FRIDAY AND I WAS GOING TO TAKE IT IN ON MONDAY WHEN I WAS OFF. SO THE ONLY REASON THERE GIVING ME THAT IT WAS MY FAULT WAS "OVER REVING" IN LOW GEARS (YEA RIGHT). I DID HAVE THE OIL CHANGED NOT LONG BEFORE THIS AT THE DEALERSHIP.

Halo · 07-09-2004, 03:43 PM

Oh crap! I wonder if they didn't screw up the oil change and either use the wrong oil, not put enough in or some other problem. A possibility anyway.

I assume you mean all 16 valves. But, that rules out many of the things I mentioned since they would typically effect one cylinder only.

They should be able to get some info from the plugs. In some cases like this, Honda may investigate the parts to figure out what happenned.

http://www.s2000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1450#1450

CYCLEDEALER · 07-09-2004, 03:49 PM

THERE NOT INTERESTED IN FIGURING OUT ANYTHING. THERE NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE RELATED ANYMORE...

energetic · 07-12-2004, 12:26 AM

Am very surprised that this happened into a Honda engine. Sounds strange.

DavidHutchesonJr · 07-13-2004, 08:18 AM

I cannot believe that a car with less than 10K miles is not covered. Sounds like a defect. I looked at my warranty (I have a 2003) and this is a covered expense unless you have done something like add a supercharger or nitrous or something exotic to the car.

Take it to a different DEALER. Call Honda directly.

CYCLEDEALER · 07-13-2004, 03:41 PM

I DID CALL HONDA AND NO SUCH LUCK ON LABOR...THEY ARE PAYING FOR THE ENGINE WHICH IM THANKFUL BUT I THINK IT ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED....BECAUSE IT WAS NOT OVER REVED. SO I LIVE AND LEARN...IT WILL BE UP FOR SALE AS SOON AS ITS FIXED AND I WILL BE SUPPORTING A NEW SPORTS CAR OF ANOTHER BRAND...BEWARE

energetic · 07-14-2004, 01:10 AM

As far as I know the warranty covers the new engine cost but not the labour cost which you must pay for it.

CYCLEDEALER · 07-15-2004, 11:50 AM

Your right..it covers parts but not labor. I think it should cover it all. I strongly believe there is a problem of some kind. Oh well...guess I'll drive the Z06 and ditch the Honda.

rajun asian · 08-30-2004, 02:29 PM

Why does everyone compare ZO6's to S2000's? If that stuff happened to me, I don't think I would even consider a Corvette. I think I'd be test driving Z's or BMW's or Porsches. Just wondering why it's either S2000 or ZO6. Please enlighten me.

Mercury3 · 10-12-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYCLEDEALER

Your right..it covers parts but not labor. I think it should cover it all. I strongly believe there is a problem of some kind. Oh well...guess I'll drive the Z06 and ditch the Honda.

I had to register just to respond to this. Is this true that the new car warrenty on an S2000 only covers parts and not labor?

Every new car I've bought has come with at least 3year 36k coverage including parts and labor.

Reason I'm asking is because I'm considering buying one. New if possible.

Kate · 10-13-2004, 05:34 AM

It does sound extremely unusual for a Honda engine. I've easily done the same so many times I've lost count without any problems, the fact that you had an oil change recently makes me very suspicious.

On the warranty thingy, doesn't cover labour? Its standard over here to have a 3 year warranty and that covers parts and labour, and even a courtesy car (not that you actually want to drive one of those).

exceltoexcel · 10-17-2004, 04:07 PM

Seriously folks this has troll written all over it. A honda f20 doesn;t blow up at 7K for no good reason and honda would never ever say you can't go over 7K! Troll alert.

Mercury3 · 10-19-2004, 07:48 AM

Thanks excel........ I should have figured that.

nibble · 11-05-2004, 08:55 AM

I guess it's little too late for the post. did you resolve the issue yet?

In other s2k forum, there are many posts on this. few reasons that cause this.

1. driver error - ie. downshifting from 3rd to 2nd at 9000 rpm.
2. valve retainer failure.
3. weak link in timing chain - I forgot the detail on this...

at any case, why would a manufacturer builds a car and advertises if you cannot rev it to 9000 rpm? or 8000rpm an '04's. in any case, if you dealer tells you that you cannot do that, it's a major BS.

RCduck7 · 12-29-2004, 10:29 AM

If my car would blow up above the 7000 rpm range, then i don't want an excuse from the dealer saying you cannot do that.
The v-tec starts to work at 7000rpm so what's the point when you cannot do this?
Under 6000 rpm it drives like a salooncar when accelerating and i didn't bought that car to do that.

BUT WHAT I NEVER DO!

IS FAST ACCELERATING AND HITTING HICH RPMS WHEN THE ENGINE IS STILL COLD!

Even when he's getting warm i'm not gonna hit 9000 rpm emmidiately.

I build it up every time i accelerate.

In the topgear survey the S2000 got first place!

But if you look it at an other way, how many people drive this car on a daily base AND go beyond 7 or 8000rpm everyday?

mmhh...

ACE · 12-29-2004, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCduck7

But if you look it at an other way, how many people drive this car on a daily base AND go beyond 7 or 8000rpm everyday?

mmhh...

erm....ME! I mean I change all my gears at about 8,500!! In my country we don't have motorways, I mean the island I live on is only 15 miles long by 11 miles wide, so as you can imagine we have a lot of twisty "B" roads as the british would call them. So if you are driving properly you'ld be upshifting and down shifting from 2nd to 4 th gear constantly....

(That is unless you are cruising ... in that case 6th gear and 2,500 rpm)

... and to be honest with you I'm not very impressed to hear that engines blow up at 7,000 rpm!

ShadowJack · 02-04-2005, 01:16 PM

The dealer using the wrong oil sounds right (or at least reasonable) to me. When I bought my used y2k last year the salesman introduced me to the service manager. While he was showing me around he made a point of telling me that the S2000 has a very different pistion design and to only use the Honda oil speced specially for the S2000. I was told that the pistons are dimpled (like a golf ball) to hold an oil film at the tight tolerances and high RPMs that the engine is capable of. Because of the decreased thickness of the boundry layer normal oil will not properly lubricate the pistons at high RPMs. Maybe an independent lab could analyse the oil and tell you if the oil was the correct one. If the dealer in fact screwed up the change and in light of the difficulty, I'd ask your attorney to not only sue for a new engine but rather for a brand new car. (can't hurt to ask, eh?)

RCduck7 · 02-04-2005, 05:06 PM

What??? I never heard or read anything of oil been made especially for the s2000! The oil they put in at my dealer is full synthetic oil. And if they were right i think only a few s2000 are driving with this oil. Does anyone here on the forum now about this to?
The manual of my S2000 doesn't refer to any special oil, just normal oil!

ACE · 02-08-2005, 04:58 AM

Quote:

The manual of my S2000 doesn't refer to any special oil, just normal oil!

Nope I was told the same thing by the local Honda Dealership. The Sales man stressed the point that I may do the serviceing anywhere I like, just as long as I make sure that the machanic uses the proper TYPE R oil. It is an oil specific for the S and the type R integras/civics.

I service the car at the dealership so I have no problem about this, but even their mechanic told me the same thing when I asked what oil he was using.

RCduck7 · 02-10-2005, 12:02 PM

I just recently had my maintenance but when my next one is near i'll sure ask about the oil. What exactly is the type of oil i should ask about for my s2000? name, specs,...

Halo · 02-11-2005, 09:34 AM

Type R oil, that's rich

In over 3 years of owning the car and reading thousands of posts at S2Ki, nobody has ever posted about this before. You think some of those tech gurus might have heard something about this magic oil?

Motorcycles whcih rev to 14K+ don't use magic oil.

I'd say the most popular oil after break-in is Mobil1 full synth, a few use Redline and other brands. Obviously, having the right weight is important.

All that aside, I am glad to see that at least the mechanics at that dealer recognize that the S is not interchangeable with Accords and Civics in terms of maintennance and requires some specialized knowledge.

07-06-2004, 02:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	BLOWN ENGINE S2000 Hi Guys, I am a female 44 who owns a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Sea Doo motorcyle, atv and watercraft dealership...just to let you know Im not dumb....My 2003 S2000 with 4,910 miles just blew an engine. I was told that it happened because I was in 2nd gear at 7K rpm upshifting...it got the valves, the head and pistons.....so beware!!!! Me as a dealer cannot pull enough strings to get the labor covered under warranty and it sucks! Currious...anyone had this problem??

07-13-2004, 08:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
DavidHutchesonJr Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 48	Take it to a dirfferent DEALER I cannot believe that a car with less than 10K miles is not covered. Sounds like a defect. I looked at my warranty (I have a 2003) and this is a covered expense unless you have done something like add a supercharger or nitrous or something exotic to the car. Take it to a different DEALER. Call Honda directly.

02-04-2005, 01:16 PM	#22 (permalink)
ShadowJack Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3	wrong oil sounds reasonable The dealer using the wrong oil sounds right (or at least reasonable) to me. When I bought my used y2k last year the salesman introduced me to the service manager. While he was showing me around he made a point of telling me that the S2000 has a very different pistion design and to only use the Honda oil speced specially for the S2000. I was told that the pistons are dimpled (like a golf ball) to hold an oil film at the tight tolerances and high RPMs that the engine is capable of. Because of the decreased thickness of the boundry layer normal oil will not properly lubricate the pistons at high RPMs. Maybe an independent lab could analyse the oil and tell you if the oil was the correct one. If the dealer in fact screwed up the change and in light of the difficulty, I'd ask your attorney to not only sue for a new engine but rather for a brand new car. (can't hurt to ask, eh?)

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07-07-2004, 02:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
jweb Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1	So how exactly do you blow an engine on an upshift that is 2k below redline? Do you mean you were told it was because you were at 7k in 2nd gear down shifting?

07-08-2004, 03:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	NO....I WAS IN SECOND FIXING TO UPSHIFT TO 3RD ON FLAT GROUND AND YES IT DOES RED LINE AT 9 BUT THE HONDA REP SAID YOU CANT RUN THAT HIGH RPM'S IN LOW GEARS AND THATS BULL...SO IM OUT 1K FOR LABOR AND BELIEVE ME ITS GOING UP FOR SALE...

07-08-2004, 04:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Uncle Fester Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5	Something's doesn't sound right here. Were you sustaining high RPMs for an entended period of time? (ie minutes?) I believe that one of the steps Honda goes through during R&D of an engine is to take the engine and hold it at redline and see how long it can stay there. I think they either do this until it fails, or until 24 hours has passed. If it makes it the 24 hours, then the engine gets approval for this particular stress test. I could be wrong about this though. I just don't see how the scenario you described could cause this. My best guess is that there may have been a low oil condition in the engine and something seized up causing the damage you described. Not sure...

07-09-2004, 02:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	More details please. 'Blown engine' isn't too clear to me. There are several known problems that have caused problems in the past. 1. Spark plug recall... plugs were getting loose at OEM torque with OEM washer and this could cause a misfire but that doesn't = 'blown engine' 2. Oil jet bolts... possibly not enough oil getting to undersides of pistons and rods because of design of 00 and 01 bolts. 3. #4 cylinder failure... various reasons, mostly 00 models 4. Plugged injector... rare reports but this could cause an over lean condition on just one cylinder that that ECU would not pick up to throw a code and cause failure of that cylinder. I can't speculate on what happenned to your engine, without knowing more. How does the dealer know how it happenned? (i.e. upshift 2-3 at high rpm... which itself sounds like nothing that would cause problems.) A downshift from 3 to 2 near redline would definitely cause a mechanical over-rev and overheat/bent valves/broken plug fragments flying around inside the combustion chamber.

07-09-2004, 03:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	ALL 12 VALVES ARE GONE...THE PISTONS ARE GONE...THE HEAD IS BUSTED AND THATS ALL IVE BEEN TOLD. THIS WAS NORMAL DRIVING CONDITIONS IN MY EYES. YOU PULL OUT ON THE HIGHWAY IN 1ST GEAR GET UP TO ABOUT 5K RPMS THEN SHIFT 2 2ND AND GOT UP TO 7K RPMS JUST FIXING TO GO TO 3RD AND THIS WAS IN APPX ABOUT 1/4 OR SO MILES. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT. IT DID NOT IDLE GOOD THAT MORNING ON THE WAY TO WORK AND IT DID NOT IDLE GOOD ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK BUT IT WAS FRIDAY AND I WAS GOING TO TAKE IT IN ON MONDAY WHEN I WAS OFF. SO THE ONLY REASON THERE GIVING ME THAT IT WAS MY FAULT WAS "OVER REVING" IN LOW GEARS (YEA RIGHT). I DID HAVE THE OIL CHANGED NOT LONG BEFORE THIS AT THE DEALERSHIP.

07-09-2004, 03:43 PM	#7 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	Oh crap! I wonder if they didn't screw up the oil change and either use the wrong oil, not put enough in or some other problem. A possibility anyway. I assume you mean all 16 valves. But, that rules out many of the things I mentioned since they would typically effect one cylinder only. They should be able to get some info from the plugs. In some cases like this, Honda may investigate the parts to figure out what happenned. http://www.s2000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1450#1450

07-09-2004, 03:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	THERE NOT INTERESTED IN FIGURING OUT ANYTHING. THERE NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE RELATED ANYMORE...

07-12-2004, 12:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
energetic Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	Am very surprised that this happened into a Honda engine. Sounds strange.

07-13-2004, 03:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	I DID CALL HONDA AND NO SUCH LUCK ON LABOR...THEY ARE PAYING FOR THE ENGINE WHICH IM THANKFUL BUT I THINK IT ALL SHOULD HAVE BEEN COVERED....BECAUSE IT WAS NOT OVER REVED. SO I LIVE AND LEARN...IT WILL BE UP FOR SALE AS SOON AS ITS FIXED AND I WILL BE SUPPORTING A NEW SPORTS CAR OF ANOTHER BRAND...BEWARE

07-14-2004, 01:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
energetic Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18	As far as I know the warranty covers the new engine cost but not the labour cost which you must pay for it.

07-15-2004, 11:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
CYCLEDEALER Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 9	Your right..it covers parts but not labor. I think it should cover it all. I strongly believe there is a problem of some kind. Oh well...guess I'll drive the Z06 and ditch the Honda.

08-30-2004, 02:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
rajun asian Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 8	Why does everyone compare ZO6's to S2000's? If that stuff happened to me, I don't think I would even consider a Corvette. I think I'd be test driving Z's or BMW's or Porsches. Just wondering why it's either S2000 or ZO6. Please enlighten me.

10-13-2004, 05:34 AM	#16 (permalink)
Kate Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 23	It does sound extremely unusual for a Honda engine. I've easily done the same so many times I've lost count without any problems, the fact that you had an oil change recently makes me very suspicious. On the warranty thingy, doesn't cover labour? Its standard over here to have a 3 year warranty and that covers parts and labour, and even a courtesy car (not that you actually want to drive one of those).

10-17-2004, 04:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
exceltoexcel Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1	Seriously folks this has troll written all over it. A honda f20 doesn;t blow up at 7K for no good reason and honda would never ever say you can't go over 7K! Troll alert.

10-19-2004, 07:48 AM	#18 (permalink)
Mercury3 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2	Thanks excel........ I should have figured that.

11-05-2004, 08:55 AM	#19 (permalink)
nibble Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	I guess it's little too late for the post. did you resolve the issue yet? In other s2k forum, there are many posts on this. few reasons that cause this. 1. driver error - ie. downshifting from 3rd to 2nd at 9000 rpm. 2. valve retainer failure. 3. weak link in timing chain - I forgot the detail on this... at any case, why would a manufacturer builds a car and advertises if you cannot rev it to 9000 rpm? or 8000rpm an '04's. in any case, if you dealer tells you that you cannot do that, it's a major BS.

12-29-2004, 10:29 AM	#20 (permalink)
RCduck7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	If my car would blow up above the 7000 rpm range, then i don't want an excuse from the dealer saying you cannot do that. The v-tec starts to work at 7000rpm so what's the point when you cannot do this? Under 6000 rpm it drives like a salooncar when accelerating and i didn't bought that car to do that. BUT WHAT I NEVER DO! IS FAST ACCELERATING AND HITTING HICH RPMS WHEN THE ENGINE IS STILL COLD! Even when he's getting warm i'm not gonna hit 9000 rpm emmidiately. I build it up every time i accelerate. In the topgear survey the S2000 got first place! But if you look it at an other way, how many people drive this car on a daily base AND go beyond 7 or 8000rpm everyday? mmhh...

02-04-2005, 05:06 PM	#23 (permalink)
RCduck7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	What??? I never heard or read anything of oil been made especially for the s2000! The oil they put in at my dealer is full synthetic oil. And if they were right i think only a few s2000 are driving with this oil. Does anyone here on the forum now about this to? The manual of my S2000 doesn't refer to any special oil, just normal oil!

02-10-2005, 12:02 PM	#25 (permalink)
RCduck7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	I just recently had my maintenance but when my next one is near i'll sure ask about the oil. What exactly is the type of oil i should ask about for my s2000? name, specs,...

02-11-2005, 09:34 AM	#26 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	Type R oil, that's rich In over 3 years of owning the car and reading thousands of posts at S2Ki, nobody has ever posted about this before. You think some of those tech gurus might have heard something about this magic oil? Motorcycles whcih rev to 14K+ don't use magic oil. I'd say the most popular oil after break-in is Mobil1 full synth, a few use Redline and other brands. Obviously, having the right weight is important. All that aside, I am glad to see that at least the mechanics at that dealer recognize that the S is not interchangeable with Accords and Civics in terms of maintennance and requires some specialized knowledge.