26K Miles and I'm the Proud Owner of...Engine FAILURE

[SpeedRacer2k2]

So I have a 2003 S2000, it's a lease, it has 26000 miles on it. And now it's a very expensive paper weight.

Inexplicably, one night, I heard a strange rattling noise that was engine speed sensitive...increased frequency w/ revs. The check engine light never came on... as far as anyone would guess this might not be a big problem. I drove the additional mile and a half home, park the car for the weekend and call a local Honda dealer for an appointment. The next time I start the car is the day I make the <5 Mile trip to the dealership. Upon start up the engine sounds fine, but again, as revs increase the sound quickens. A mile or so down the road the engine stalls at a red light. Can't get it started, and yet still no check engine light. I push the wounded car off the road and call AAA. After a couple of hours I have the car flatbed towed to the Honda dealer where it would remain to this day (2+ months later).

The service writer calls me and says that the warranty will not cover this problem because the engine is seized. When I ask how this was determined the service writer told me they tried starting the engine, it wouldn't crank, and when the dipstick was pulled the level was low.

It should be noted at this point that, I have all required documentation for self-administered oil changes done at 5000 some odd mile intervals w/ Mobil 1 full synthetic oil. It should also be noted that w/in 2 weeks prior to this incident I had in-fact checked my oil and the level was fine... and another side note... w/in 26000 miles the car had never used a single drop of oil between oil changes (not so much as 1/2 a quart).

After a rather irritated conversation w/ the service manager, at which time I voiced my displeasure for having found my car in the same outside parking spot I unloaded it in (indicating the car never made it into the garage to be examined). The service manager was adamant that no further work would be done to even determine the cause or even the actual problem unless I were to pay for such work out of my pocket.

The service department was ready to deny warranty coverage on an apparent engine problem w/o so much as even dropping the oil pan or draining whatever oil was left. By the way, as I stood over the car w/ the service manager there was visible oil on the dipstick (albeit not a great deal but still there).

At this point the local zone rep was called in to make a determination. I was told by the service manager that the warranty was voided by the zone rep because 1) there oil level was low and 2) there was an aftermarket air intake.

Despite the fact that there is a federal law that mandates aftermarket equipment must be proven to have caused a failure to allow a company to void a warranty (Magnusson-Moss) and the fact the Check Engine light, and more importanly the Low Oil Pressure light never, i repeat, never came on (a blatant and very visible indication of a factory part not operating as intended... grounds for warranty coverage)... I was told that the warranty would not cover this problem.

Many, many phone calls to the National Warranty Claim service resulted in no movement whatsoever on this issue. After repeated conversations w/ a claim consultant, who did little to honor Honda's reputation for customer service multiple letters were writtien the President of Honda North America, as well as phone calls placed. Weeks after this contact was initiated contact was resumed w/in the Claim center...where we re-hash the same arguments tri-weekly.

The morale of the story is Honda, as great a product as they have on their hands w/ the S2000, is piss poor at customer service... also, you can be the most fastidious owner (as I would like to think I was) and w/o warning find yourself w/ an expensive chunk of melted aluminum ... my engine.

[Halo]

That is indeed a horrific story, and unfortunately one that is a bit too common I am afraid. It sounds like you did everything you could to have Honda honor their warranty and, as suspected by many people, they do whatever they can to find an excuse to NOT honor it. Excuses like "driver abuse" are so easy for car companies in any performance car, aren't they?

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine who had a clutch disintegrate on his Mustang GT after 700 miles. He brought it in and the factory refused the warranty citing "owner abuse" The car wasn't even broken in and my buddy definitely was not doing burnouts with it. 700 miles? Just what kind of abuse would it take to destroy a clutch that fast?

The thing is, there are identical stories on the SRT4, 350Z, Evo, STI forums. When such high output cars first began hitting the market, I was wondering how they would be able to make them reliable. I mean, it's possible to do, but not for the prices they're charging. But, stories like yours prove that they don't actually have to make them reliable do they?
What I mean is, they can ALWAYS cite "owner abuse" in these cars because the car is, theoretically, made to be driven hard. So, if you don't shift at 3000 rpm and exceed 65mph... it's owner abuse.

[smalls777]

that engine should not have seized under just low oil conditions( but anything can happen ,so what do i know)... and i agree where the hell was my warning light. i would fight this until you win. find one of those lawyers where you don't pay unless you collect and fight like a banshee. i am so sorry to hear that trouble. also drag that car to another location. try even a certified private honda repair facility, get the reason for the lock up. faulty rods, rev limiter failure, even though red lining is not permited , but still this is something that sometimes is unavoidable, slick surface, real heavy right foot, you know....

[SirBrucskie]

Now, I am the proud owner of a 2000 s2k, and a 1970 chevelle ss, and a former owner of a 99 cadillac sts. Although complete diffrent cars, I can say this, on the domestics oil level and oil pressure are two diffrent things. If the oil level gets to low, their were no warnings except on the cadillac(mostly because it had to many gadgets on it). The pressure light or guage would only show a problem IF the oil pump went out and the pressure to distribute the oil through the engin failed. As long as the oil pump is working (so long as it has enough oil to suck up out of the pan) your pressure reading will all show to be fine.
I'm not a Honda mec. and I'm not to familliar about the oil system on it, so dont hold it against me ok. However, I do know that's how they work on the American cars. I just recently got myself into the inport scene and still tryin to learn alittle about the Honda as the miles go on.
As for ever thing else your goin through,,, Fight Em'!!!!! And give em' a stoppin' like OU got in the bowl game.

[RCduck7]

You can drive it to hell and they can't accuse you of carabuse!
There's a revlimiter to prevent that.
Otherwise they wouldnt make the v-tec work starting at 7000rpm.
The aftermarket airintake will expire your garantee i'm afraid.
You didn't ask to set the computer to the new values for the engine getting more air, did you?
The cars computer gets confused and sh!t happens.
Still, i don't think that could caused it.

[RCduck7]

Another thing that could caused it is that the aftermarket airintake hasn't got a good filter and dirt went in.
Or maybe even a small gravelstone!

[SirBrucskie]

Have you ever thought of ever putting the original air box back on and taking to a diffrent dealer? Never know it might be worth a try. Oh yeah top off your oil, too.

[DavidHutchesonJr]

Believe me it works. Threaten law suit, and they will fix the car. When Honda gets a letter siting the problems on a lawyer's letterhead, you will get action. A law suit where Honda has to have a lawyer show up costs much more than fixing your car. Believe me, it worked for me back in the 1980s with a new Z28 that I had problems with. It worked for me. One letter, and my problem was fixed.

[Grand National]

I totally agree. You will get positive results with a lawyer. If they want to play hard ball, then so should you.

Example: After 3 weeks purchasing my 2001 Y2K, I had a few minor problems such as the seal around the headlight lens was allowing moisture to get inside, and the clutch vibrating on a downshift. Anyway, they said that the clutch was not coverable, as it was designed to wear out. I said, " This is supposed to be a "Certified Honda" warranty, which I have had paid good money for, obviously someone missed this problem during their 700,998 point inspection." He replied, "Sorry, but this is not covered...." I immediately told this guy that I now have every intention to pursue this issue with a third party. He said, " Allow me to get back to you." He called me back in 15 minutes, and said that they will fix the clutch, which I had a 50.00 deductable.

Some dealerships view their definition of customer service differently than other dealerships.

Stay on them.......you money is green as theirs.

[jwa4378]

I would AVOID legal action. Honda is represented by Sutherland, Asbill, & Brennan, LLP out of Atlanta. They are a HUGE corporate firm with DEEP pockets. They have a contract with Honda, so they get paid ump-teen million dollars a year, and do not bill by the hour. I would know.....My mother is one of them! I have a similar dilemma with my soft top under warranty. She said that the best thing to do is get on Honda letterhead EXACTLY what voids the warranty of the repair. Then take it to a COMPLETELY separate dealer, and do the same thing. If the accounts are not the same, you have grounds for inconsistency. Then and ONLY THEN do you want to litigate. Do not construe any of this as "legal advice." It is only what I have picked up from my mom over dinner conversations about work experiences. The big thing is CONSISTENCY. If the other dealer / authorized technician confirms the dealer, you are screwed.

[Java Junky]

While I'm agreein' with most of what you guys r' sayin' about all of this, what strikes me most is that it's not just a "car" thing. I, and friends have had similar experiences with Sony where it was made obvious that the warranty didn't amount to a hilla beans. Back in April or so it happened to one of AutoWeek's better editors. The piece she wrote on it (Ferrari vs. Sony) was too similar to what myself and a friend (who had the misfortune of followin' my suggestion n' buyin' a Sony too) were goin' through.
It seems that the way of the business world has been guided by some bean-counter that figured yet another way to squeeze every ounce of cash outa the business so that the current CEO could quit with a 8 figure buy-out package. Many of what we considered rock-solid companies are lettin' the customers swing rather than honoring their warranties. I'm sure that they're watchin' the results n' will start honorin' the warranties again as soon as the problem affects their no-longer honorable reputation.
Maybe this shoulda gone into the "off-topic" bin, but it seemed to fit pretty well from where I was sittin'.
It's becomin' apparant that if this can be happenin' to you, this could be happenin' to any one of us.
Good luck Speed.

[fletch]

It looks like the guy's not coming back to let us know how he got on, but anyway...

Originally Posted by SpeedRacer2k2

... I have all required documentation for self-administered oil changes

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in the UK if the car is not serviced at an authorised Honda garage, including oil changes, that will invalidate your warranty.

Additionally, I know of at least two UK owners who have had engines seize up due to loss of oil, and in both cases Honda honoured the warranty and paid up for the replacement engine.

[Halo]

You can change your own oil here on Hondas and the warranty is honored. You may have to show proof that you actually did it. I suppose Honda could come back and say you didn't check the oil level... and ask you to prove you did THAT.

[tloc]

that sux...