2000-2002 S2000 vs 2003-2005 S2000

brhGT3 · 04-06-2005, 08:03 PM

As I understand it in 2003 they increased the displacement of the engine from 2.0L to 2.2L and lowered the redline from 9,000 rpm (I'm not sure to what). If this is incorrect please correct me.

Can anyone give me the pros and cons of the new engine? I owned an S2000 briefly before (the 2.0L 9,000 rpm redline model, a 2001) and absolutely loved it. The 9,000 rpm redline made the car. I suspect they made this move to make the car less noisy, less vibration, more mannerly on the street, etc. I don't care about any of that. I loved the car loud and raw. What year should I get?

S2Kluver · 04-06-2005, 08:11 PM

u can find that out on this site. just go to the main page look for galleries on top, go in there and look for models, then click on the 2004 model and it should tell u all the changes and how it compares to the older F20C

brhGT3 · 04-06-2005, 09:12 PM

I would like to know the personal opinions of the enthusiasts especially if there's anyone that's owned or driven both

brhGT3 · 04-06-2005, 09:22 PM

Also what's better for modifying and after market parts? Turbo's, Superchargers, nitrous and others have crossed my mind more than once...

s2000_vtec_mike · 04-07-2005, 05:30 PM

ok well turbo is good for u kidnes if u know wut i mean for realiability superchargeed nitrious is the was to go inless u want pain in ur kidnes from all the kick n its a hassel but alot more fun and raw i think of supercharge as stupid horepower cuz turbo there science all the way from the headers to the intercoler the phat BLOW OFF VALVE

jt · 04-11-2005, 04:14 PM

I owned a '02 for a year and recently purchased an '05......there is a difference between the two cars.......'05 rides a bit smoother and is better for everyday driving, but the '02 seemed to snap around corners a bit sharper......go for the '05.

Java Junky · 06-21-2005, 11:18 PM

brh;
I believe that it's the '04 that you're thinkin' of with the 200cc increase to 2200. They lengthened the stroke and the redline, which had been at (I think) 8500rpm (which makes folks unfamiliar with Japanese motorcycle motors REALLY nervous) was brought down to around 7800rpm.
Other than that n' 17" rims n' tires as opposed to the old 16s I'm outa info.
Hope this has been of some help.
Good luck.
Oops! Almost forgot the most important thing: now there's two (count 'em, 2) cup holders. Someplace.

Java Junky · 06-21-2005, 11:35 PM

Sorry brh, 'just noticed your second message.
As to personal preference, which, bein' personal, shouldn't matter to someone other than the original person . . but you asked:
I just finaly found my personal S2 yesterday. I've been lookin' n' drivin' anything that looked remotely acceptable for the last 2 weeks and since I had a rough idea of what I was going to look at each time I found none that I'd turn my back on.
As to pre-'04s and '04s and better: My personal impression was that the older cars (stock) were more of a threat in that they seemed always ready to have the rear end race the front end to each pushed corner. They seemed more "edgy" n' wound. Kinda like a Doberman.
The '04s and better to a car seemed more sophisticated, less prone to anything sudden, but still capable of mayhem if pushed. I guess since I started with the first example bein' Dobbies, the '04 and newers were kinda like Rottweillers. Not alot calmer than the Dobbies, but noticeably calmer.
I hope this is some help brh, but like I said it's all personal. You've gotta go do your own homework on this one. There ain't no cheatin'.
Good luck. N' like the old knight said "Choose wisely".

Halo · 06-22-2005, 12:08 PM

F20c (in North American S2000s pre 04 and still in ALL S2000s everywhere else) redlines at 8800 although the tach makes it look like 9000. Personal taste of course, but to me, the essence of this car has always been the extreme sportbike nature of this engine. The increased stroke and slight increase torque was Honda's solution for the North American market only.

If Honda had asked me what to do, I would have gone even more extreme/niche with the AP2 redesign and tried to squeeze another 1,000 rpm out of the engine and drop a couple of hundred pounds from the curb weight.

Java Junky · 06-22-2005, 02:04 PM

Personally (there seems to be alot of that goin' around in this buncha messages) I'm all for Halo's extra thou on the tach with less weight, as would, I'm sure, most everybody.
(I think that Honda actually produced a number of cars with those features and allowed the public to test them on some island out in the Pacific. They abandoned the idea when most motorists weren't able to deal with the improvement and started swappin' n' tradin' injury photos n' runnin' around yellin' "happy motoring") Sorry guys. Slow news day.
As terrific an idea as that is, I think that the greater part of the motorin' public couldn't handle it and Honda's probably well aware of that. You'd probably be able to sell a scalpel-like machine like that to maybe .1% of the car buyin' market. Somehow, I don't get the impression that Honda got to be Honda by shootin' for numbers like that.

Halo · 06-25-2005, 08:34 PM

No doubt it wouldn't be an Accord replacement

Lotus is able to sell a few thousand Elise's that definitely out-do the S in the 'raw' department. Admittedly, it doesn't have a 10K rpm redline

I recently drove a friend's and it made my S feel like a Cadillac in comparison. But for a single purpose vehicle, there is not much quite like it in NA. My S is the Berlina hiding in the back.

www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=112

www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=114

RCduck7 · 06-26-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo

No doubt it wouldn't be an Accord replacement

Lotus is able to sell a few thousand Elise's that definitely out-do the S in the 'raw' department. Admittedly, it doesn't have a 10K rpm redline

I recently drove a friend's and it made my S feel like a Cadillac in comparison. But for a single purpose vehicle, there is not much quite like it in NA. My S is the Berlina hiding in the back.

www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=112

www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=114

I was really confused between the s2000 and the lotus elise when i wanted to buy a new car.
The moment the s2000 came out i really wanted that car and when i finally wanted to buy one new in 2004 i was in real doubt if i should go for it or for the lotus.
But what put me a bit off on the elise was the transmission that works with cables and felt a bit sponzy.
With the s2000 on the other hand it has one of the best engine-transmission combinations.
But what was really important to me was the handling.
The lotus elise may be a bit more of a drivers car and it goes like a wasp in the bends.
Magazines and other media praise the lotus elise but few admit it has it weaknesses.
While the previous model of the elise was easely and controllable to oversteer, with the new model you really have to provoke it and is a little more edgy.
Well that may not be really called a negative point, but what scared me more is it's drawbacks of it's short wheelbase.
In highspeed bends that you take let's say in 4th gear at 100 miles per hour it can be a really dangerous car and not to well planted.
With my s2000 at this speed when it was mildly wet in a bend i felt the limit of the tyres grip and when i went a bit to far i just had to let go of the accelerator and everything was allright.
If i did this with a lotus i may not be sitting here.
I'm not sure, maybe i would but IT IS more dangerous with the elise.
When i eventually took place in a lotus (eventually because i had to roll myself up to get in it wich i actually don't really mind as it's looks some sort event lol ) i really didn't felt safe with that short bonnet.

Oh yeah, and when it's raining with the top up it also rains inside the car.
Ok got a bit carried away here, it's dripping slowly inside the cockpit.
But then again when you have to left it outside and it rains allday it may not ruin your car but it's not very pleasent.

It would love to have a lotus elise for some days of the year, but the s2000 fan that i was and still am i think i really would have regretted it when i didn't buy one.

If i'm still not completely satisfied with my s2000 i can go and spend a bit off money lowering and stiffing up the suspension a little bit and go for a bit of more talk for the engine...
But i will keep it NA though.

Regards
RCduck7

Java Junky · 06-26-2005, 09:14 PM

Okay, jus' so's there no confusion: Ain't no way in hell I could afford r' justify an Elise. That said, when I was out ridin' I passed a lot with a buncha really sinister lookin' ground huggers. I'd seen pictures but nothin' prepared me for how small n' low they were. I've no doubt that anything with the Lotus badge on it is engineered to beat the band n' corners like a bat, but just droppin' my butt into the seat reminded me of the feelin' when some joker pulled my seat out from under me when I was goin' to sit down. 'Thought I'd never stop droppin'.
But the best part was tryin' to be inconspicuous about pullin' my old carcass outa the thing. 'Nuff said. Rest assured it wasn't a pretty sight.
A very sensuously shaped, seriously angry lookin', ground huggin' animal. But. as I've already thouroughly embarrassed myself pullin' into the station without knowin' where the fuel door release was with my S2, I see no reason to consider a car that'd have me arrivin' home to extract myself with my engine hoist.
Sharp lookin' car. 'Enjoyed lookin' at it alot.

Halo · 06-27-2005, 08:58 AM

The tranny on the Elise was definitely not up to snuff for such a driver's car. Not only did it have unusually long throws, but it transmitted engine vibration as bad as an 80s Hyundai. I think that's a side effect of having a longer linkage than the same engine in a F/F configuration.

It's definitely a single purpose built vehicle. So the lack of comfort and convenience I won't criticize since that's part of the car's allure. If it was available for the same price as the S when I bought mine I would have gone for the Elise in a second. But, at about $15K over the price of an S now, I can't justify it.

SIN3 · 06-28-2005, 07:43 AM

me personally i prefer the loud and responsive 01. i drove my buddies 04 for about 3 weeks before i decided to purchase the 01. just my .02 cents

mks2k · 06-28-2005, 11:55 AM

Recently traded in my 01 for a new 05. Would almost trade back even if possible. Don't get me wrong I love the yellow 05, but it shifts and rides like a Cadallac, the 01 drove like a race car.

Mark

UGA Dawg · 06-28-2005, 12:45 PM

I doubt you will have any problems finding someone with an 01 to trade you even for your 05('

')

RCduck7 · 06-28-2005, 03:48 PM

Here in Europe the 05 model stays the 2.0L, there is no softer 2.2L to 8000rpm instead of a 9000rpm model.
They just made the suspension a bit softer and a few cosmetic changes and that's about it.
The softer suspension can always be taken care of if it's not your thing.

Java Junky · 06-28-2005, 03:56 PM

Okay Halo; you're stranded on a desert island with (insert the name of the car of your choice between the S2 n' the Elise) to have as your sole means of transportation.
N' if you choose the Elise, how long would it be before you threw a supercharger on that? 'You SURE you're done with bikes?
Enquirin' minds wanna know.

RCduck7 · 06-28-2005, 04:11 PM

I think you got the wrong topic java.

Java Junky · 06-28-2005, 07:51 PM

Thanx RC, but it's jus' a wee bit more of an involved trail of responses than usual, but I'm in the right place . . this IS Hoboken, ins't it?
Be well folks.

Halo · 06-29-2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Java Junky

Okay Halo; you're stranded on a desert island with (insert the name of the car of your choice between the S2 n' the Elise) to have as your sole means of transportation.
N' if you choose the Elise, how long would it be before you threw a supercharger on that? 'You SURE you're done with bikes?
Enquirin' minds wanna know.

As sole transportation, I'd have to go with the S, no question. But, for a weekend toy (the reason I bought the S), I think the Elise fits the bill better.

RCduck7 · 06-29-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Java Junky

Okay Halo; you're stranded on a desert island with (insert the name of the car of your choice between the S2 n' the Elise) to have as your sole means of transportation.
N' if you choose the Elise, how long would it be before you threw a supercharger on that? 'You SURE you're done with bikes?
Enquirin' minds wanna know.

As sole transportation, I'd have to go with the S, no question. But, for a weekend toy (the reason I bought the S), I think the Elise fits the bill better.

I think your right halo.
But still driving the small lotus on the edge scares me to much.
It is a more dangerous car then an s2000.

Java Junky · 06-30-2005, 03:52 PM

Thanx Halo.
JJ

RCduck7 · 07-17-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Java Junky

Okay Halo; you're stranded on a desert island with (insert the name of the car of your choice between the S2 n' the Elise) to have as your sole means of transportation.
N' if you choose the Elise, how long would it be before you threw a supercharger on that? 'You SURE you're done with bikes?
Enquirin' minds wanna know.

As sole transportation, I'd have to go with the S, no question. But, for a weekend toy (the reason I bought the S), I think the Elise fits the bill better.

This week when i watched an older show from Top Gear featering the Lotus Exige (you know, a bit of a trackversion but roadlegal that looks even more awesome then the elise).
I was really tempted to be this car a step up for me in the future.
But the thing is, it hasn't got a top you can take off as with the elise.
Especially today when i drove the s2000 open on a beautiful sunny day i realised i didn't wanted to go back to a closed car.
I also found out when watching the Top Gear shows that the presentator Jeremy Clarckson couldn't get the elise in oversteer, he got understeer and when he went to far the car just spinned.
But someone from Lotus proved it was very capable of oversteer.
It requires a technic where you brake just before you go into the corner.
Jeremy said that this was all very well on a circuit but on a normal road with ditches and stuff a bit to edgy, and he still prefered the old elise (wich was easely controllable in oversteer).
The lotusman said that this could be easely overcome by fitting wider wheels+tires at the front (wich are very small on the original car).
This sounded like music to my ears as i really wanted to like the elise.
If this is true i might take the plunge to the elise within a few years (if the elise is still with the best that is)

Cheers

rijk456gt · 07-23-2005, 05:52 AM

RC,

I think this tread is going off topic, but if you have the Sport Package on the Elise, non of these problems occur (in dry weather).

I agree that it can be scary to truely drive the Elise on the limit on public roads, because it is too dangerous and irresponsible. However, that limit is soooo far away, that you don't have to worry.

Only once I have made a "360". I was caught on a muddy patch in a curve. Luckely, I did not hit anything.

04-06-2005, 08:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
brhGT3 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	2000-2002 S2000 vs 2003-2005 S2000 As I understand it in 2003 they increased the displacement of the engine from 2.0L to 2.2L and lowered the redline from 9,000 rpm (I'm not sure to what). If this is incorrect please correct me. Can anyone give me the pros and cons of the new engine? I owned an S2000 briefly before (the 2.0L 9,000 rpm redline model, a 2001) and absolutely loved it. The 9,000 rpm redline made the car. I suspect they made this move to make the car less noisy, less vibration, more mannerly on the street, etc. I don't care about any of that. I loved the car loud and raw. What year should I get?

06-28-2005, 11:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
mks2k Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 5	01 vs 05 Recently traded in my 01 for a new 05. Would almost trade back even if possible. Don't get me wrong I love the yellow 05, but it shifts and rides like a Cadallac, the 01 drove like a race car. Mark

06-28-2005, 12:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
UGA Dawg Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 31	I doubt you will have any problems finding someone with an 01 to trade you even for your 05('')

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04-06-2005, 08:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
S2Kluver Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 40	u can find that out on this site. just go to the main page look for galleries on top, go in there and look for models, then click on the 2004 model and it should tell u all the changes and how it compares to the older F20C

04-06-2005, 09:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
brhGT3 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	I would like to know the personal opinions of the enthusiasts especially if there's anyone that's owned or driven both

04-06-2005, 09:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
brhGT3 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	Also what's better for modifying and after market parts? Turbo's, Superchargers, nitrous and others have crossed my mind more than once...

04-07-2005, 05:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
s2000_vtec_mike Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 62	ok well turbo is good for u kidnes if u know wut i mean for realiability superchargeed nitrious is the was to go inless u want pain in ur kidnes from all the kick n its a hassel but alot more fun and raw i think of supercharge as stupid horepower cuz turbo there science all the way from the headers to the intercoler the phat BLOW OFF VALVE

04-11-2005, 04:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
jt Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4	I owned a '02 for a year and recently purchased an '05......there is a difference between the two cars.......'05 rides a bit smoother and is better for everyday driving, but the '02 seemed to snap around corners a bit sharper......go for the '05.

06-21-2005, 11:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	brh; I believe that it's the '04 that you're thinkin' of with the 200cc increase to 2200. They lengthened the stroke and the redline, which had been at (I think) 8500rpm (which makes folks unfamiliar with Japanese motorcycle motors REALLY nervous) was brought down to around 7800rpm. Other than that n' 17" rims n' tires as opposed to the old 16s I'm outa info. Hope this has been of some help. Good luck. Oops! Almost forgot the most important thing: now there's two (count 'em, 2) cup holders. Someplace.

06-21-2005, 11:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Sorry brh, 'just noticed your second message. As to personal preference, which, bein' personal, shouldn't matter to someone other than the original person . . but you asked: I just finaly found my personal S2 yesterday. I've been lookin' n' drivin' anything that looked remotely acceptable for the last 2 weeks and since I had a rough idea of what I was going to look at each time I found none that I'd turn my back on. As to pre-'04s and '04s and better: My personal impression was that the older cars (stock) were more of a threat in that they seemed always ready to have the rear end race the front end to each pushed corner. They seemed more "edgy" n' wound. Kinda like a Doberman. The '04s and better to a car seemed more sophisticated, less prone to anything sudden, but still capable of mayhem if pushed. I guess since I started with the first example bein' Dobbies, the '04 and newers were kinda like Rottweillers. Not alot calmer than the Dobbies, but noticeably calmer. I hope this is some help brh, but like I said it's all personal. You've gotta go do your own homework on this one. There ain't no cheatin'. Good luck. N' like the old knight said "Choose wisely".

06-22-2005, 12:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	F20c (in North American S2000s pre 04 and still in ALL S2000s everywhere else) redlines at 8800 although the tach makes it look like 9000. Personal taste of course, but to me, the essence of this car has always been the extreme sportbike nature of this engine. The increased stroke and slight increase torque was Honda's solution for the North American market only. If Honda had asked me what to do, I would have gone even more extreme/niche with the AP2 redesign and tried to squeeze another 1,000 rpm out of the engine and drop a couple of hundred pounds from the curb weight.

06-22-2005, 02:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Personally (there seems to be alot of that goin' around in this buncha messages) I'm all for Halo's extra thou on the tach with less weight, as would, I'm sure, most everybody. (I think that Honda actually produced a number of cars with those features and allowed the public to test them on some island out in the Pacific. They abandoned the idea when most motorists weren't able to deal with the improvement and started swappin' n' tradin' injury photos n' runnin' around yellin' "happy motoring") Sorry guys. Slow news day. As terrific an idea as that is, I think that the greater part of the motorin' public couldn't handle it and Honda's probably well aware of that. You'd probably be able to sell a scalpel-like machine like that to maybe .1% of the car buyin' market. Somehow, I don't get the impression that Honda got to be Honda by shootin' for numbers like that.

06-25-2005, 08:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	No doubt it wouldn't be an Accord replacement Lotus is able to sell a few thousand Elise's that definitely out-do the S in the 'raw' department. Admittedly, it doesn't have a 10K rpm redline I recently drove a friend's and it made my S feel like a Cadillac in comparison. But for a single purpose vehicle, there is not much quite like it in NA. My S is the Berlina hiding in the back. www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=112 www.s2000.com/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=114

06-26-2005, 09:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Okay, jus' so's there no confusion: Ain't no way in hell I could afford r' justify an Elise. That said, when I was out ridin' I passed a lot with a buncha really sinister lookin' ground huggers. I'd seen pictures but nothin' prepared me for how small n' low they were. I've no doubt that anything with the Lotus badge on it is engineered to beat the band n' corners like a bat, but just droppin' my butt into the seat reminded me of the feelin' when some joker pulled my seat out from under me when I was goin' to sit down. 'Thought I'd never stop droppin'. But the best part was tryin' to be inconspicuous about pullin' my old carcass outa the thing. 'Nuff said. Rest assured it wasn't a pretty sight. A very sensuously shaped, seriously angry lookin', ground huggin' animal. But. as I've already thouroughly embarrassed myself pullin' into the station without knowin' where the fuel door release was with my S2, I see no reason to consider a car that'd have me arrivin' home to extract myself with my engine hoist. Sharp lookin' car. 'Enjoyed lookin' at it alot.

06-27-2005, 08:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
Halo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 610	The tranny on the Elise was definitely not up to snuff for such a driver's car. Not only did it have unusually long throws, but it transmitted engine vibration as bad as an 80s Hyundai. I think that's a side effect of having a longer linkage than the same engine in a F/F configuration. It's definitely a single purpose built vehicle. So the lack of comfort and convenience I won't criticize since that's part of the car's allure. If it was available for the same price as the S when I bought mine I would have gone for the Elise in a second. But, at about $15K over the price of an S now, I can't justify it.

06-28-2005, 07:43 AM	#15 (permalink)
SIN3 Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 20	me personally i prefer the loud and responsive 01. i drove my buddies 04 for about 3 weeks before i decided to purchase the 01. just my .02 cents

06-28-2005, 03:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
RCduck7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Here in Europe the 05 model stays the 2.0L, there is no softer 2.2L to 8000rpm instead of a 9000rpm model. They just made the suspension a bit softer and a few cosmetic changes and that's about it. The softer suspension can always be taken care of if it's not your thing.

06-28-2005, 03:56 PM	#19 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Okay Halo; you're stranded on a desert island with (insert the name of the car of your choice between the S2 n' the Elise) to have as your sole means of transportation. N' if you choose the Elise, how long would it be before you threw a supercharger on that? 'You SURE you're done with bikes? Enquirin' minds wanna know.

06-28-2005, 04:11 PM	#20 (permalink)
RCduck7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	I think you got the wrong topic java.

06-28-2005, 07:51 PM	#21 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Thanx RC, but it's jus' a wee bit more of an involved trail of responses than usual, but I'm in the right place . . this IS Hoboken, ins't it? Be well folks.

06-30-2005, 03:52 PM	#24 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 5,303	Thanx Halo. JJ

07-23-2005, 05:52 AM	#26 (permalink)
rijk456gt Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 10	RC, I think this tread is going off topic, but if you have the Sport Package on the Elise, non of these problems occur (in dry weather). I agree that it can be scary to truely drive the Elise on the limit on public roads, because it is too dangerous and irresponsible. However, that limit is soooo far away, that you don't have to worry. Only once I have made a "360". I was caught on a muddy patch in a curve. Luckely, I did not hit anything.