50k miles, my 1st oil change

[Elusive8S2k]

I have my first oil change comin up for my s2k and was needin some basic info. I think I've figured out these cars take PCX filters, right? Can these be acquired from like napa or advanced or can you only get them from Honda. Reason I ask is the one oil changin shop where I live doesn't carry pcx filters. Other thing is, the car has been using regular oil, not synthetic so I need to know which is a good brand to start feedin her I am pretty sure its 10w-30 but just refresh my memory. And is it 5qts or 6qts? Thanks for any info guys. Oh wait, one more thing. Is there a washer you have to replace that sits between the oil filter each time you change your oil? Does the new washer come with the new filter everytime? Sorry for the lame questions.

[bjurasz]

50k miles? I really hope you meant 5k... As per the oil weight and the oil volume your owners manual will tell you both. I have also heard that only the Honda filter truly fits right. I bought a Fram once that was noticably smaller than the Honda, even though it was supposed to be a "fit". No idea about the washer.

[Java Junky]

El, I'm with bj hopin' that you meant 5 thou n' not 50 thou. N' personally, even 5 thou's about 4 thou more'n I'd go for my absolute first oil change.
As for gettin' info off the site to service your car: I've very, very infrequently ever seen bad info on the site n' doubt strongly that it was intentional, but this is a vehicle that I'm sure that you spent a considerable chunk'a change on. You think that the way to get info on how to service it is to ask a bunch'a faceless strangers how you should go about it?
Second opinions n' suggestions maybe, but you should be gettin' your base knowledge from referencin' your owner's manual n' if you don't got one, you should get one.
Everybody's got opinions n' information. Your bible (owner's manual) over-rides all. Mother Honda's pumpin' these little beauties out. Ya godda figure that they got a pretty good idea'a how to take care of 'em.
Be well.
Java

[Scott]

The car takes just over 5 quarts. 5 should be sufficient, but check the dipstick after changing the oil to see if you need a touch more.

You don't need a new gasket on the new filter. What you DO need to do is take some of the drained oil, and "wet", or lubricate the outer rubber seal on the new filter before putting it on.

You don't need an OEM Honda filter. K&N makes an oil filter that works great.

You should be using 10w30 synthetic oil. I personally prefer Amsoil, but it's a bit more pricey than regular synthetics. Mobil 1 should be just fine.

[Elusive8S2k]

No guys, I meant 50 thousand lol. Its a used 2003. I guess I worded it wrong. I am doing MY first oil change on the car since I bought it from another owner. There, I believe that clears up the confusion. Of course the oil has been changed every few thousand, Im just doing it my first time since its my new "used" car lol. But if I didn't use synthetic, which brand do I use of the reg stuff. And thanks for the replies guys.

And the reason I ask here is because alot of the people seem real knowledgeable about this stuff. I do read the owners manual but you would be surprised how much stuff is NOT included in it. I just like to stay on top of my game.

[Elusive8S2k]

And one more thing, sorry but the thing I dont like about the owners manual and talking to Honda. They both gave me different answers. I believe my manual states 5qts and Honda rep told me 6 qts. That's why I ask just to get more opinions, sorry if I annoy some of you peeps My accord just wasnt like this car.

[gomarlins3]

It is 5.1 qts. of oil
I use Mobil 1 10W30
I use Fram filters, but many will tell you the correct filter to use is Honda 15400-PCX-004. Honda 15400-P0H-305 is a good filter if you change your oil often. Honda 15400-PR3-014 will also fit.

There are three honda filters to avoid even though your service department may tell you they will work:
Honda 15400-PT7-005
Honda 15400-PLM-A01
Honda 15400-PLM-A02

[Java Junky]

Whew, El! 'Can't say's that ain't a relief to hear.
N' while I'm stickin' with my suggestion of the bible as a basis for all of your Stewie knowledge, I godda admit that I do get to soundin' a mite cantankerous, well . . jus' every once in a while. (As miserable an individual'z I am, it's a wonder I ain't cantankerous more often) Apologies to all if some of it slipped out n' into my post.
You, on the other hand, have no reason to apologize, well, not to this "peep" anyway.
Be well.
Java
(Peep. P-e-e-p. Hmmmm-m-m-m. Ain't never been no peep before)

[Elusive8S2k]

Haha, no worries Java. You're a classy guy, thanks And thanks to you too Gomarlin, that is exactly the info I was looking for. Appreciate it very kindly.

[Scott]

If you absolutely do not want to run Synthetic, the best dinosaur oil I could recommend is Pennzoil PureBase or Valvoline mineral oil.

But in reality, why wouldn't you want to run synthetic?

[DarkShade9]

What's the process of changing from dino to synthetic?

[bjurasz]

The process of changing to synthetic? You drain out the old stuff and fill it back up with the synthetic. Mobil-1 is great stuff and if you aren't doing track events once a month is just fine.

[DarkShade9]

I thought it was a little more involved than that. Ah well, sounds good to me.

[Scott]

Well, it's kind of a loaded question.

How many miles have you run on the car?
Has it been on natural oil it's whole lifespan?

The literal answer is yes, you can just drain one and put in the other. But in reality, there's a bit more to it. If the car is an older one, or has lots of miles, you want to exercise some level of caution when switching. The reason is that over time and use, there is a fair amount of wear that takes place on hoses, gaskets, and seals. So if you do have a high mileage car, and make an immediate switch over, then you may develop some tiny leaks that you wouldn't have with dinosaur oil.

If you fear this may happen to you, switch to a synth blend first. That way it's an easier transition, and you can check where seals might be greasy from the starting of an oil leak. If you switch to a blend for a couple changes and everything is fine, then you can go ahead and try a full synth oil.

Just remember, when switching oil, keep the same viscosity (10w30 for the S2000). Also, make sure you give it a little extra drain time to get all the old oil out before putting in the new quarts of synthetic.

Also, it's not really needed, but it isn't a bad idea to use a magnetic drain plug. This will pick up some of the metal shavings flowing through the oil system that the filter may not grab. Don't feel like spending $30 for the Spoon one? AutoZone sells generic ones that work just as well for quite a bit less money.

[Java Junky]

Dunno Scott, not straight synthetic, but simply to see whuddud happen I'd switched a pair'a high mileage cars over to a synthetic/petroleum mix n' neither one did anything except maybe raise it's idle (it was so slight on the 135+ thou Bronco that no readjust was necessary, but the 165+ 'Yota did hafta be reined in a bit)
I don't doubt that in certain full synthetic switches with higher mileage vehicles you could run into problems, but I suspect that they'd be the exception.
I'm with you on the extra time to allow for more complete drainage (especially when the temps r' in the cooler moods) n' I'll add to that that dependin' on the vehicle's oil pan, you might even wanna jack n' tilt the car to put the drain side at the low end.
For years I've made a habit of runnin' one quart of synthetic with the remainder of the oil petroleum based. The synthetic is tenacious when it comes to clingin' onto parts. So much so that with a synthetic/petroleum mix the synthetic handles the lubrication while the petroleum is more of a heat-transfer component. If you switched back to petroleum base after runnin' synthetic, it'd probably take you a couple'a oil changes before you got rid of all the synthetic.
I've run that mix in every bike n' car I've owned for more years than I wanna admit to n' except for one Escort lost to an accident, they all seem to live to a ripe ol' age.
That 165+ 'Yota got sold to a guy at work. He'd show up every once in a while with his boat in tow. So, it works for me anyway.
Be well.
Java

[Scott]

it really seems to vary from place to place and car to car. Owner upkeep, as well as original build quality seems to come into effect largely as well. Where I live, cars take a beating. I'm on the east coast, in central Florida. So during the summer, cars are blasted daily with 90+ degree heat with high humidity, and a steady onshore wind which is full of salt air blowing in from the ocean. It seems to be torture on rubber and plastics (not to mention the paint).

We switched a friend's '95 Sentra with 140k miles from natural oil over to full synthetic and it leaked like a screen door on a submarine. Ok...maybe not THAT bad. But it was still bad enough to switch back to natural oil.

[Bubblerboy64]

Speakin of Earl. If you change oil frequently meaning every two to three thousand miles is synthetic worth the money. I know some who will run the synthetic oil for up to a year and change only the filters and top off the oil levels. I can't convince myself to do that so I throw all that expensive oil to the guys who burn it in there waist oil burners but I have wonder if much of this stuff is pure hype. I've never had an engine oil related failure in all my years of driving but I also wonder if anyone does. I know people that change their spouses more frequently then their oil. What's the science behind this. The manuals are showing longer and longer drain intervals. I am doing what my Dad did back in the day changing oil as often as every 2000 miles. Anyone know the real skinny on this. I think sometimes we just do what we're think is right and with little real evidence that it is either good or waistful. What say you in the know. I am not interested in hearing what each of you do more from the people with some scientific support for their postions. I mean I do what my Dad did because he did it and it worked for him but that is hardly science is it? John

[Java Junky]

"Leaked like a screen door on a submarine"???? Thanks Scott. I ain't heard that in years. 'Much obliged.
As for "scientific support", well Bub, I godda admit that my info, even when I got it 30 years ago, was dated, so I imagine that there's been at least a few new studies on the subject.
But, if I read my history right, in WWII synthetic oil was the brainchild of the German scientists, n' they recommended that when the new ME-109s were run up for the first time, they were run up on synthetic. Immediately upon completion of that, the synthetic was drained n' each ME went on-duty with petroleum in it's gut with the synthetic still coatin' it's innards.
Oh, forgot to mention that the synthetic that was run in the engine, when it was drained, was filtered n' put into the next new engine in line, n' again, n' again, n' again . .
Now, I don't know 'bout you . . but that's good enough for me until I see somethin' to the contrary.
***P.S. Y'know Bub, ya got me to wantin' to verify what I read years ago. So far I'm comin' up Butkus. If I godda eat crow, I godda eat crow. Currently runnin' a thread "Knowledge (the lack thereof)" on the history of synthetic. Will advise.
Be well.
Java

[Scott]

Ok, so as for frequency of changing oil. Again, there's no solid answer short of taking your used oil in for an analysis by a professional. Generally speaking, the 3000 mile idea is mostly a myth that is still propagated by the Jiffy Lubes of the world. Even on old fashioned oil, most engines won't start to break it down until at least 5000 miles. Plenty of people refuse to change their synthetic oil for 8000-10000 miles. But again, not every car is the same, and not everyone's driving methods are the same.

I usually change out my synthetic oil every 5000-6000 miles, but I drive the car hard, including autocross and track days. I also check the oil level every 500-1000 miles.

[jay2000]

Here is some good info on oil filters and why i use the honda oil filter.
Well, i got my snazzy oil filter cutter, and opened 3 filters in my garage:

1) A Honda 15400-PT7-005 (Fram?)
2) A Honda 15400-PCX-004 (current S2000 filter)
3) A Denso 150-1006 sold on a Honda parts site as "better than the cheap Fram filter Honda is selling".

Let's count pleats:
1) 47
2) 53
3) 47

Advantage: Honda S2000 filter

Let's measure the filter media height:
1) 53mm
2) 53mm
3) 44mm

Advantage: Hondas

What about external flow holes?
1) 6
2) 8
3) 8

Advantage: Honda PCX & Denso (combined with the internal holes, these 2 clearly have higher flow capability)

Symmetry of pleating:
1) Good
2) Fair
3) Excellent

Advantage: Not sure. Are symmetrical pleats better?

Bypass valve material:
1) Treated paper
2) All Metal
3) Plastic

Bypass diameter:
1) Approx 19mm
2) 20mm
3) 10mm

Advantage: Honda S2000 filter

Bypass valve tension (estimated):
1) Moderate
2) Higher
3) Moderate

Advantage: Honda S2000 filter (assuming higher tension means less bypass/higher oil pressure needed for S2000 engine - clearly not an "all-purpose" design

Internal holes (for oil flow)
1) 104
2) 220 (slightly smaller than #1)
3 165

Advantage: Honda S2000 filter - Denso close with smaller filter size

Filter media depth:
1) 12mm
2) 12mm
3) 12mm

Advantage: Both Honda filters had more surface area

End seal anti-drainback gasket material:
1) Silicone rubber
2) Silicone rubber
3) Silicone rubber

Advantage: None - all had fine quality materials.

Oil flange mating gasket:
1) O-ring type with torque limiting design
2) O-ring type with torque limiting design
3) O-ring type with torque limiting design

Advantage: None. All had quality gaskets unlikely to leak if properly torqued using the "7/8's rule".
************************************************** ************
General analysis of filter quality"
The generic Honda (#1) had a cheap bypass construction, cardbard end caps, and fewer flow holes. It appears to be a typical Fram filter.

#2 was all metal, and had indications of having been purpose built, especially based on the size and opening pressure of the bypass valve, and the number of flow holes. These are important to maintain proper oil pressure and ensure bypassing ony when needed.

#3 was well made, but the smaller filter area and the narrow bypass suggest this filter was not specifically designed for the S2000.

As you can see the honda faired better.

[jay2000]

I did not do the testing myself, but it was done by a knowledgeable independent person. I also use amsoil synthetic in my car, a similar test shows it superior to other synthetics. Good luck.

[JdMs2k]

Originally Posted by Elusive8S2k

I have my first oil change comin up for my s2k and was needin some basic info. I think I've figured out these cars take PCX filters, right? Can these be acquired from like napa or advanced or can you only get them from Honda. Reason I ask is the one oil changin shop where I live doesn't carry pcx filters. Other thing is, the car has been using regular oil, not synthetic so I need to know which is a good brand to start feedin her I am pretty sure its 10w-30 but just refresh my memory. And is it 5qts or 6qts? Thanks for any info guys. Oh wait, one more thing. Is there a washer you have to replace that sits between the oil filter each time you change your oil? Does the new washer come with the new filter everytime? Sorry for the lame questions.

as far as filters go...you dont really have to have the same filter as from factory..fram is a good brand or champ..castrol would be a good brand to go with on the oil and its five qts.

[67AtlasDave]

jay2000 excellent info that was great! Just goes to show you OEM was purpose built! Fram and the other are ment for a mulititude of cars not for the S2K only. I will have my shop stock the Honda 15400-PCX-004. Also is this the filter for both AP1 and AP2?