My S2000 died on me on the freeway ... Help!!

[H20]

Entirely predictable.
You bought a car that has been abused. It broke. You never found out why. Never REALLY found out what broke. Some guy treats the symptom instead of the disease and predictably it broke again. If you don't know a nut from a bolt you need to buy NEW cars with warranty's.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by RMurphy

It does seem that your assessment of the particular vehicle you purchased is accurate. It is not, however, representative of the overall quality of the product line in general. It seems likely that the particular car you bought suffers from a common malady that most heavily molested vehicles have. They sometimes break or are temperamental because they've been modified and perhaps not modified particularly well or with the best of expertise.

I had some aftermarket modifications on previous cars and while those mods made the cars special to me, it meant a trade off. The trade offs meant occasional problems or "considerations" that a bone stock vehicle wouldn't exhibit. And I was okay with those trade offs because I made them knowingly and I knew how to deal with them. But with this car I have opted not to mess with it. You really need to know what you're messing with and be willing to expect and deal with the trade offs.

I'm just saying I hope you don't write off all S2000s based on your one bad experience with a single example that appears to have been rat-f***ed by someone before you got it.

And I hope you can get it fixed without need for any additional personal lubricants to ease the pain of the procedure.

I'm actually looking at selling this one and picking up a Ap2 with 24K miles on it for $12.000 we'll see how that goes but I'm kind of sick right now....can't even lie

[lonestarbuzz]

ap2 w/ 24K for $12,000? i know it's about to be winter, but this seems extremely low. i would spend the cash to have it checked out by a honda tech.

just save up for a new one that you KNOW hasn't been riced out. and never buy another car with that body kit, that should have been red flag #1.

p.s. nice response, Murph.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by lonestarbuzz

ap2 w/ 24K for $12,000? i know it's about to be winter, but this seems extremely low. i would spend the cash to have it checked out by a honda tech.

just save up for a new one that you KNOW hasn't been riced out. and never buy another car with that body kit, that should have been red flag #1.

p.s. nice response, Murph.

it's actually dealer cost. A friend of mine is a dealer and I hooked him up in the past with a very nice buy on a Convertable Corvette for dirt cheap so he is helping me back by giving it to me at cost.

[H20]

Originally Posted by lonestarbuzz

p.s. nice response, Murph.

It really was.
OP I'm surprised you are thinking of buying another S2000. After my 65 Beetle seized up on me after 3 days of owning it (in 73) I never bought another volkswagon.
Of course if you can get the AP2 with low miles that cheap you can turn it over for a nice profit.

[RMurphy]

Originally Posted by lonestarbuzz

p.s. nice response, Murph.

Originally Posted by H20

It really was.

Thanks. Was just stating what I felt was right.

Every once in awhile even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

[yashooa]

Originally Posted by H20

It really was.
OP I'm surprised you are thinking of buying another S2000. After my 65 Beetle seized up on me after 3 days of owning it (in 73) I never bought another volkswagon.
Of course if you can get the AP2 with low miles that cheap you can turn it over for a nice profit.

Holy GAWD 73! Well I'll be damn someone on a car forum who is older than me
I guess we are "mature" ricers.

I am sorry to hear you got a fubared car. I did a ton of research and looked at a ridiculous amount of S2K's online before I found one that had a verifiably impeccable past and records to prove it at a highly reputable dealer.
I got mine for a steal as well good luck with the AP2.

[H20]

Originally Posted by yashooa

Holy GAWD 73! Well I'll be damn someone on a car forum who is older than me
I guess we are "mature" ricers.

I am sorry to hear you got a fubared car. I did a ton of research and looked at a ridiculous amount of S2K's online before I found one that had a verifiably impeccable past and records to prove it at a highly reputable dealer.
I got mine for a steal as well good luck with the AP2.

Who you calling mature? My only crime is not dying! And it might have been 71 or 72..dont remember. I smoke and drink and play in a rock and roll band. Hell I can pass for 55 easy..oh..I AM 55!

[jagg]

heh, heh, heh....

old folks.

jagg

[TheSoundMan21]

Originally Posted by jagg

heh, heh, heh....

old folks.

jagg

im catchin ya... maybe not

[S2KCRick]

Originally Posted by mdjice

Ok...I'm gonna try to STAY FUCKING CALM!!!!.... I just got the car back, took it for a ride, got on the freeway drove 8mn...and SAME FUCKING problem!!! engine dies, car comes to a stop...car dead AAA towing....I'm Soooo pissed right now....I paid $1200 drove the car less than 10 mn and it's dead again the exact same way!!??? are you serious??...The car is in front of the shop now....I'll be there at 8am when they open...I'm sure I'll have to fight with the BS they gonna give me saying it's something else and I gotta pay more....We'llsee about that...anyways, I'm getting this car fixed and I'm SELLING THIS P.O.S. glad the s2000 is working out for you guys...it's definitely NOT for me...

I would just have the same mechanic fix the problem that he charged you $1200 for something he already shouldve fixed. Don't go to that mechanic anymore after this. That was lame for him to tell you to drive it for a few hundred miles to "break it in" and hope it gets better by itself.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

I would just have the same mechanic fix the problem that he charged you $1200 for something he already shouldve fixed. Don't go to that mechanic anymore after this. That was lame for him to tell you to drive it for a few hundred miles to "break it in" and hope it gets better by itself.

Yes I'm definitely expecting him to fix it for free than he will never see me again...

[skatepozer23]

Originally Posted by mdjice

Yes I'm definitely expecting him to fix it for free than he will never see me again...

That is a good idea. I had a performance shop put aftermarket suspension on my MR2 and i got the car back and they put the left rear wheel on the front left and put the front left wheel in the rear left. I immediately knew something was wrong because the MR2's rear wheels are taller and wider than the front and i could see my car leaning. That shop = FAIL!!!!!!!!!!

I never went back.

That shop is on my route to work everyday and occasionally i give them the bird for being so retarded they should be living on wellfare (no offense to anyone)

[jagg]

That shop is on my route to work everyday and occasionally i give them the bird for being so retarded they should be living on wellfare (no offense to anyone)

ummmmmm........

[mdjice]

ok...more bad news...the story continues...
this guy calls me..tells me : bad news, the car needs a new engine....
WTF??? he is like: I must have not see some dirt under the Piston, I looked really good but I guess I didn't see that, the car needs a whole new engine...
then comes the FUNNY PART!!! he tells me, I'm trying to help you put so I know this guy who has a 2000 HONDA CIVIC, real clean...he is whilling to trade you for your S2000.....HAHAHA oh my gooood he is the funniest guy on earth!! so I'm like wait you want me to give him my 2001 S2000 for a 2000 Honda civic??...you gotta be kidding!? and he is like yeah but your S2000's engine is dead so it's a pretty good trade for a car that runs good like the Civic....huuuh buddy the Engine is DEAD because you couldn't do your fucking JOB!! So I'm like NO way I dont want a freaking civic I want my car to be fixed, I don't care what you do get it done! he is like well we can take a hit like that we can't take care of it and to fix it YOU would have to pay for it and I know you dont want to...NO SHIT I DONT WANT TO!! I told him look I brought you my car because I had a problem with it, You tell me then engine needs repare and it's gonna cost $1200 I said OK fix MY ENGINE I drive the car 10 miles and the engine dies and you are telling me you can't do nothing about it??? buddy you just worked on my engine and charged me 1200 and now it's dead, he must have full responsability for this right??
I don't even want my money back now because it would cost ME a fortun to get a new engine in I told him look do what you want but I want MY car to be back up and running, I paid for a service and it wasn't cheap you need to provide the service I paid for no matter what it cost YOU I don't care. I already called the better business bureau and they said I can file a complan and they have 30 days to resolve (then what if they dont?)
The mechainic said he was going to have the owner of the shop (his dad) call me see what we can work out....that's easy YOU fix it and I ain't paying for anything else! do you guys think they can fight about this? do they have any grounds NOT to pay to fix my car?
I'm sooo fraking pissed right now....

[philiam]

Document everything, every conversation, date and time, as near as you can. Call the states attorney general to find out what your rights are. Take him to small claims court.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by philiam

Document everything, every conversation, date and time, as near as you can. Call the states attorney general to find out what your rights are. Take him to small claims court.

yeah I got the paper from triple showing they towed the car back to the shop 2 hours after I picked it up. I also have the receipt for the work done.
I'm calling BBB on Monday if they don't want to resolve. Don't know what can be done but it sounds.....long expensive and ANNOYING....

[philiam]

Small claims court is not expensive. Don't know about Texas, but CA no lawyers are allowed on either side. So, it's up to you.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by philiam

Small claims court is not expensive. Don't know about Texas, but CA no lawyers are allowed on either side. So, it's up to you.

Judge Judy ...here I come !!! lol

[D1sclaimer]

BBB wont necessarily do anything, young blood.

What exactly on it is wrong now compared to last time my light skinned brother?

[jagg]

The mechanic didn't break your engine. It's been broken since the first time it quit running. I would agree that they should credit the money you've already spent towards replacing/rebuilding the engine, since they obviously didn't go far enough diagnostically to determine the root of your problem, but it's unfair to hold them responsible for damage that you rolled in there with from day one.

Flying off the handle isn't going to nudge them in the direction of fairness ,when it comes to dealing with you...

You can call the BBB and all the other consumer agencies out there, but they can't force these people to purchase you an engine. Only a judge can make them do something they don't want to. If you truly feel that the garage is the cause of your problem, then you'll need to go to court with some proof in hand.....

I believe if you sit down and really think about it, you'll realize that this car was a rat since the day you bought it. Ultimately, you are the only one responsible for your problems. As I said before, buyer beware on a used sports car that obviously has been heavily molested. For future reference, when you open the hood on a car like the S, and you see that it used to be a different color, you should probably walk away.

I'll give you $200.00 for what's left of it.
Pm me for shipping details.

jagg

[mdjice]

I'm not sure what's wrong with it now but I think he said the pistons were bad now.
I'm saying it's his fault because Wen I brought it to him the problem was 2 bent valve heads and 2 ignition coils needing to be replaced..NOT A COMPLETELY DEAD ENGINE... He admited to me that he messed up and even though he said he looked really good everywhere he must have not seen some dirt under the piston or something and that's what caused the engine to be completely dead now.
If I brought my car with the first problem to another shop they would have fixed it and I wouldn't have the problem I have now...

[MutantCheese]

If you only need a long block, my buddy has one for sale for $200.00

[s2000COP]

Saw this coming from the first page.

Sleeve the block, get some new pistons, re-surface the head, get some new valves and you should be back on your way. Will be cheaper than a new engine.

Oh, and make copies of your recipts and run over to the JP to file a case. Don't wait around. That's what screwed me up.

[RMurphy]

Jagg's most recent response is quite good and I would have to say I agree with him.

BBB is of little or no use to you, particularly if the shop is not a member of the BBB. I own a business and I got the hard sell to join the BBB so I looked into it. It is my opinion that the BBB is largely a marketing gimmick and is of little or no value to either owner or consumer. YMMV, but that's my read on it.

If it were me in your shoes, here is what I would do:
Have the car towed elsewhere, preferably a reputable shop of some substantial size and standing in the area. Your primary goal is to get the car fixed and to have the cause for the problem documented. Even if the current shop *can* fix your car, you are unlikely to trust or feel comfortable with their work. There is bad blood here and it is wiser and safer to walk away from such situations.

Make sure you explain the full history of what happened with the car but be VERY careful not to bad mouth the shop where you just took the car out of. You do NOT want the new shop people to think you are a potential problem for them too, so stay very reasonable and say the reason you took it out of the other shop is because you just didn't feel comfortable with working with them anymore and needed a fresh set of eyes on the job. And that is true.

Do tell them you want everything very clearly documented so you are able to clearly understand what caused the problem and what is being done to fix it. And this is also true, only you are omitting the part about how the biggest reason it has to be documented very clearly is because a judge in a small claims court is going to be reading this who may or may not know anything at all about cars. Do NOT mention anything about legal actions, court, or anything at all about seeking restitution to the new shop. Stay focused on getting the car fixed and having clear communications with them. You do NOT want them thinking you are going to use what they say to nail someone else on their crappy work. It will make them skittish and not want to work with you.

Be prepared for the fact that you will likely spend a lot to get this fixed out of your own pocket and there is a strong possibility that all you will get back is the $1200 you paid the other shop. Right or wrong is not part of this process. Fair is not part of this process. Right now you need a working car and to minimize the damage to yourself. Note I said minimize, not eliminate. Life is full of damage and that's just the way it is, you know? The trick is in how you navigate to avoid as much unnecessary damage as you can that comes into play now.

Small claims court is a tedious, time consuming process. Do your homework on what is involved. You can bring a claim and you might even get paid if you win a judgment, but it takes time and a lot of effort. If you have that kind of time on your hands, then it is worth it. I have done it and I won a judgment (in CA). I also was able to collect on the judgment, but that was only because the company I sued was owned as a partnership DBA (not an LLC or corporation) and those partners owned real property that I could place a lien on once the judgment was recorded. Having that lien meant they could not sell or refinance their homes if they didn't pay me. Thankfully, they chose to pay me. There is no way to *force* anyone to pay a juddgment. They *can* just ignore it. So do your homework first before you decide to do the small claims thing. Find out how the company is owned and if the owners have any real property you could put a lien on. If they do, then it's worth pursuing. If they don't, it could all just be a waste of time. (BTW, there is also a way to use a judgment to get payment from assets in a bank account which the company has but I'm not as familiar with that process)

All the info about how small claims works is available on line these days so just do your homework and be prepared for a tedious process.

Good luck with getting your car fixed. Hope it works out for you.

[RMurphy]

PS You said,

Originally Posted by mdjice

...If I brought my car with the first problem to another shop they would have fixed it and I wouldn't have the problem I have now...

You do not know this. There are no guarantees in life. There is no way to know that another shop would not have made the exact same diagnosis and done the exact same thing. Maybe not, maybe so. But you just can't say since we still don't really know what caused the first problem and we don't really know what's wrong right now either. Everything is going to be conjecture with a percentage of likelihood of being correct.

[S2KCRick]

I went through something similar, when I had a new engine and trans installed in my 49 merc. The shop caused some damage to my car and refused to pay or fix it. So i filed suit in small claims, they got the notice and gave me the money needed to fix the problem.

Filing in small claims might scare the shop in coughing up the $1200 you paid for them to fix something that they never fixed. It worked for me, it might work for you.

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by RMurphy

Jagg's most recent response is quite good and I would have to say I agree with him.

BBB is of little or no use to you, particularly if the shop is not a member of the BBB. I own a business and I got the hard sell to join the BBB so I looked into it. It is my opinion that the BBB is largely a marketing gimmick and is of little or no value to either owner or consumer. YMMV, but that's my read on it.

If it were me in your shoes, here is what I would do:
Have the car towed elsewhere, preferably a reputable shop of some substantial size and standing in the area. Your primary goal is to get the car fixed and to have the cause for the problem documented. Even if the current shop *can* fix your car, you are unlikely to trust or feel comfortable with their work. There is bad blood here and it is wiser and safer to walk away from such situations.

Make sure you explain the full history of what happened with the car but be VERY careful not to bad mouth the shop where you just took the car out of. You do NOT want the new shop people to think you are a potential problem for them too, so stay very reasonable and say the reason you took it out of the other shop is because you just didn't feel comfortable with working with them anymore and needed a fresh set of eyes on the job. And that is true.

Do tell them you want everything very clearly documented so you are able to clearly understand what caused the problem and what is being done to fix it. And this is also true, only you are omitting the part about how the biggest reason it has to be documented very clearly is because a judge in a small claims court is going to be reading this who may or may not know anything at all about cars. Do NOT mention anything about legal actions, court, or anything at all about seeking restitution to the new shop. Stay focused on getting the car fixed and having clear communications with them. You do NOT want them thinking you are going to use what they say to nail someone else on their crappy work. It will make them skittish and not want to work with you.

Be prepared for the fact that you will likely spend a lot to get this fixed out of your own pocket and there is a strong possibility that all you will get back is the $1200 you paid the other shop. Right or wrong is not part of this process. Fair is not part of this process. Right now you need a working car and to minimize the damage to yourself. Note I said minimize, not eliminate. Life is full of damage and that's just the way it is, you know? The trick is in how you navigate to avoid as much unnecessary damage as you can that comes into play now.

Small claims court is a tedious, time consuming process. Do your homework on what is involved. You can bring a claim and you might even get paid if you win a judgment, but it takes time and a lot of effort. If you have that kind of time on your hands, then it is worth it. I have done it and I won a judgment (in CA). I also was able to collect on the judgment, but that was only because the company I sued was owned as a partnership DBA (not an LLC or corporation) and those partners owned real property that I could place a lien on once the judgment was recorded. Having that lien meant they could not sell or refinance their homes if they didn't pay me. Thankfully, they chose to pay me. There is no way to *force* anyone to pay a juddgment. They *can* just ignore it. So do your homework first before you decide to do the small claims thing. Find out how the company is owned and if the owners have any real property you could put a lien on. If they do, then it's worth pursuing. If they don't, it could all just be a waste of time. (BTW, there is also a way to use a judgment to get payment from assets in a bank account which the company has but I'm not as familiar with that process)

All the info about how small claims works is available on line these days so just do your homework and be prepared for a tedious process.

Good luck with getting your car fixed. Hope it works out for you.

thanks for all the info!! I would love to avoid going to court...seams like a lot of trouble and work...as far as getting the car fixed right now I absolutly cannot afford it!, I juts had some major repairs on my wife's benz and I'm moving my business into a new place which will require a pretty expensive build out. It's not a time where I can cover anotehr $2500 to $5000 expense.

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

I went through something similar, when I had a new engine and trans installed in my 49 merc. The shop caused some damage to my car and refused to pay or fix it. So i filed suit in small claims, they got the notice and gave me the money needed to fix the problem.

Filing in small claims might scare the shop in coughing up the $1200 you paid for them to fix something that they never fixed. It worked for me, it might work for you.

I don't want them to refund me the $1200 as it would cost me now more than that to get the car fixed. I want them to fix the car at their own expenses Getting a used engine or sending it to get rebuilt as mention earlier, I don't care but I want the car back on the road.

[RMurphy]

Originally Posted by mdjice

I don't want them to refund me the $1200 as it would cost me now more than that to get the car fixed. I want them to fix the car at their own expenses Getting a used engine or sending it to get rebuilt as mention earlier, I don't care but I want the car back on the road.

Well, in my opinion (which is worth every penny you have paid for it), you are expecting too much, particularly if you don't have an ongoing relationship with this shop. Without knowing what caused the problem in the first place, you can't pin it on them to fix the whole thing now at no cost. And there is no knowing if they even *can* fix the thing (do they have the appropriate skill set? is the car so completely R-F'd from mods that fixing it is a nightmare? etc...).

I don't work on cars for a living, but I do work on computers. When someone comes to my firm with a heavily modified from stock computer and asks us to work on it to fix some very strange behavior, I decline. Why? Because I've been down that road before and it never ends pretty. You change something that on any other computer would render "result A" and you get "result BSOD" and the client says it's your fault now. Even though that BSOD would never have happened had the CPU not been overclocked by her cousin who "knows everything about computers" or had there not been wads of cat hair clogging up a fan that you helpfully try to remove which then reveals a crappy bearing in the fan that squeals like a stuck pig now and... on and on... until the client looks at you with this "you scheister" look and demands you fix it at no cost to him/her even if it means buying several new parts and you eating your own labor costs all the while you know that even after all this, the particular device might still have issues buried deep in the registry that nothing but a complete OS reinstall will fix. And now you find yourself praying they won't start asking you to reimburse for lost income that their supposed "business" suffered while you were trying desparately to do the work they asked you to do.

I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but you might want to consider the possibility that you are expecting a bit too much in this particular instance.

[s2000COP]

At least you still got the vette

[jagg]

'n bein' a music producer 'n all, probably is chump change to you and your posse'.


you are expecting too much from the folks who tried to fix it "on the cheap" for ya in the first place.

if it were my garage, I'd chuck you off the porch and take my chances.

jagg

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by RMurphy

Well, in my opinion (which is worth every penny you have paid for it), you are expecting too much, particularly if you don't have an ongoing relationship with this shop. Without knowing what caused the problem in the first place, you can't pin it on them to fix the whole thing now at no cost. And there is no knowing if they even *can* fix the thing (do they have the appropriate skill set? is the car so completely R-F'd from mods that fixing it is a nightmare? etc...).

I don't work on cars for a living, but I do work on computers. When someone comes to my firm with a heavily modified from stock computer and asks us to work on it to fix some very strange behavior, I decline. Why? Because I've been down that road before and it never ends pretty. You change something that on any other computer would render "result A" and you get "result BSOD" and the client says it's your fault now. Even though that BSOD would never have happened had the CPU not been overclocked by her cousin who "knows everything about computers" or had there not been wads of cat hair clogging up a fan that you helpfully try to remove which then reveals a crappy bearing in the fan that squeals like a stuck pig now and... on and on... until the client looks at you with this "you scheister" look and demands you fix it at no cost to him/her even if it means buying several new parts and you eating your own labor costs all the while you know that even after all this, the particular device might still have issues buried deep in the registry that nothing but a complete OS reinstall will fix. And now you find yourself praying they won't start asking you to reimburse for lost income that their supposed "business" suffered while you were trying desparately to do the work they asked you to do.

I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but you might want to consider the possibility that you are expecting a bit too much in this particular instance.

The car is NOT heavily modified though, intake and exhaust, that's it

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by s2000COP

At least you still got the vette

unfortunatly the vette is at the bodyshop right now getting painted back to its original color...bad timing....but I never thought the s2000 would die on me so fast...

Originally Posted by jagg

'n bein' a music producer 'n all, probably is chump change to you and your posse'.


you are expecting too much from the folks who tried to fix it "on the cheap" for ya in the first place.

if it were my garage, I'd chuck you off the porch and take my chances.

jagg

bein"G" a music producer "AND" all does have anything to do with this money is money. They did NOT fix it on the cheap, $1200 is NOT cheap at all IMO. I'm expecting what they offered me...to FIX MY CAR and get it up and running again...they didn't... I would have rather them told me "we can't fix it" or "it might be more to it and nothing is certain" but no they said $1200 and it will run like before, so I paid for a service and less than 10 miles later the "service" I paid for was not good anymore... They can take there chances, I won lawsuits again major record labels, I have no problem going against a little shop...it's just that it's a waist of time and energy I would have prefered to avoid.

[jagg]

No sonny,

$1200.00 is chump change in the world of auto repairs.

jagg

[RMurphy]

Originally Posted by jagg

No sonny,

$1200.00 is chump change in the world of auto repairs.

jagg

That's exactly what I was thinking. $1200 in general is not a small amount of money to most people (me included), but it IS a small amount of money in the world of auto repairs. Particularly repairs on performance cars which are dead in the water.

mdjice said, "but I never thought the s2000 would die on me so fast..."

Dude, yeah, that was bummer timing and I can hardly blame you for placing your bet the way you did, but cars break and it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. Although you do want to take into consideration that when you buy a used car, you have to expect there will be all sorts of hidden things you won't know about when you get it. And if what you *can* see indicates the owner had a propensity for getting a bit heavy handed with swapping things out from stock and maybe not doing the most righteous of work on it, then you have to assume what you *can't* see is worse. And then there are the fluke things that happen too which no one can expect.

[S2KCRick]

Originally Posted by mdjice

I don't want them to refund me the $1200 as it would cost me now more than that to get the car fixed. I want them to fix the car at their own expenses Getting a used engine or sending it to get rebuilt as mention earlier, I don't care but I want the car back on the road.

If the shop is saying that there was more damage than they originally saw, then you're gonna have a tough time getting them to fix the rest of it for free. As previously stated by others here, you're assuming that they caused more damage to your car, thats gonna be hard for you to prove. But if you can prove it, then its all good.

Just because they told you it would cost 1200 to fix, based on the damage they saw, doesnt mean that theyre gonna replace your engine for 1200.

[TheCarGuy2021]

Originally Posted by TheCarGuy2021

Also, if you have bent valves you're going to need more than a new head.

What he said.

[lonestarbuzz]

Originally Posted by mdjice

The car is NOT heavily modified though, intake and exhaust, that's it

body kit, fullish repaint (which usually means wreck). who would paint their S silver? it's the most common color out there. you could sell your car, take the money that you would spend on a repaint, and buy a silver S.

no offense to the silver owners at all. i'm just sayin' - if i wanted a silver S, i'd buy one and not paint mine silver.

[lonestarbuzz]

there's a lot of good advice in this thread. i'm in halvsies with jagg.

[johns]

can't wait to see the outcome of this.
based upon reading these 4 pages, i would go ahead and say the original shop isn't even liable for your new engine.
the service you paid for actually came to fruition, it just wasn't the problem.
had they known that there was dirt under the piston, they wouldn't have charged only 1200 from the getgo...they would have told you you needed a new engine.
good luck op