FI vs more CC's/CI's

[S2KCRick]

Does anyone here have an S that has punched out the engine for more cc's/ci's? I ask this because this is probably good thing to look at for comparison, if it hasnt been done already.

We all know that the only bolt-on thats gonna give a real increase in power is getting a charger. So what about increasing the cc's? Does anyone here have an S thats been bored, blue print/balanced, ported and polished etc.? With numbers to compare?

Thanks.

[gomarlins3]

For the amount of money it would cost to do all of that, you can buy a SC and be done with it. You also would have proven power increases.

[S2KCRick]

I agree 100%. It would be the most expensive way to go to get a real increase in power while being NA, if its not the only way. Since the 2.2l has an average of 108hp per liter, punching it out to 2.8 lets say, would get you to 302hp, maybe? Or if you have a 2.0, punched out 2.6, you would get 312hp? IDK, if that can even be done. Has anyone done something like that?

[turbosix]

biggest F20/F22 street stroker kits are going to get you a 2.54L motor... they do make race kits that can scale up to 2.69L... but they apparently are not streetable.

some dyno sheets here:
http://www.inlinepro.com/s2000/stroker_kits.html

one shows a 13.0:1 compression 2.5L stroker motor putting down 264rwhp/193tq
i am sure in this case there are supporting intake / exhaust mods as the motor is now half a liter larger and now the oem i/h/e are not going to flow enough.

another chart shows a stock compression 2.5L making 240rwhp...

the kits are $3600 each.... not including installation costs.

$3600 gets you your pick of basically any used blower kit on the market and the benefit of being able to go back to stock in your driveway in a few hours or so.

its just not really worth it.

[S2KCRick]

Thats interesting. So a 2.0 can be punched out to just under 2.6 with about 50-70hp increase and still pass smog? Is it safe to assume that the 2.7 will be close to 300whp? Im sure 2 bills can get it to pass smog. The stroker include any port n polish? i assume no. A port n polish would give what?, another 40-50hp? I remember my crx had just a polished head and i had about 30hp more, it felt like vtec kicking in at 4k.

[D1sclaimer]

I thought the 2.5 kits messed with the oil squirters as well? Could be wrong.

[gomarlins3]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

. A port n polish would give what?, another 40-50hp?

I HIGHLY doubt it.

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

Thats interesting. So a 2.0 can be punched out to just under 2.6 with about 50-70hp increase and still pass smog? Is it safe to assume that the 2.7 will be close to 300whp? Im sure 2 bills can get it to pass smog. The stroker include any port n polish? i assume no. A port n polish would give what?, another 40-50hp? I remember my crx had just a polished head and i had about 30hp more, it felt like vtec kicking in at 4k.

im guessing the 2.7 would make maybe 275... maybe 280...

the f20 / f22 head is almost as perfect as it is. no one really messes with them because you can do a LOT more damage than good...

things dont scale up on these cars, they scale WAAYYYYYY down...

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by D1sclaimer

I thought the 2.5 kits messed with the oil squirters as well? Could be wrong.

i read an article with a guy doing a frankenstein kit consisting of H22a, F20 and K24 parts and he removed them.

[D1sclaimer]

Originally Posted by turbosix

i read an article with a guy doing a frankenstein kit consisting of H22a, F20 and K24 parts and he removed them.

I have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/06...ild/index.html

[S2KCRick]

so the hp to cc ratio goes down as you increase the cc's, that blows. Does the stroker kit weakn the engine, meaning less durable, or does it make it stronger-more durable?

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by D1sclaimer

I have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/06...ild/index.html

just referencing to the fact his kit was a mix match of machined parts here and there.... inlinepro's kit is basically a "drop in" if you could call it that

[S2KCRick]

Originally Posted by gomarlins3

I HIGHLY doubt it.

Why do you say that? I know that with my crx, i couldnt get it ported because it wouldnt pass smog, but it wouldve been significant if it was done.

Why would a port n polish make things worse? Just curious.

[gomarlins3]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

Why do you say that?

Why would a port n polish make things worse? Just curious.

I didn't say it would make it worse, I was doubting the claim of 40-50 hp.

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

Why do you say that? I know that with my crx, i couldnt get it ported because it wouldnt pass smog, but it wouldve been significant if it was done.

Why would a port n polish make things worse? Just curious.

because the f20 head is miles ahead of the crx head.

the f20 head is very nice from the factory... if you dont know what you are doing, very little changes can backfire and cause you to lose power.

[S2KCRick]

Yea that was directed to Turbo, about possibly doing more damage than good.

So what do you think? maybe 25hp at the most for port n polish? im just guessing based what my crx was doing.

[TheSoundMan21]

Originally Posted by D1sclaimer

I have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/06...ild/index.html

so how much hp did that end up producing anyone know?

Far as port polish on our cars less than 10hp I am just guessing.

[S2KCRick]

Originally Posted by turbosix

because the f20 head is miles ahead of the crx head.

the f20 head is very nice from the factory... if you dont know what you are doing, very little changes can backfire and cause you to lose power.

I see what you mean, having someone that doesnt know much about the head on these cars could certainly cause problems. I'm not messing with head myself. I guess the head is near perfect, so there not much to improve on.

[jun11]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

Yea that was directed to Turbo, about possibly doing more damage than good.

So what do you think? maybe 25hp at the most for port n polish? im just guessing based what my crx was doing.

Are you asking about a p&p with a stroker kit or a p&p job on a stock motor? P&P on a CRX head, or even a B16 head for that matter, will yield gains because these engines were designed on a performance scale for commuter cars and there is more performance to suck out of them. S2000's were designed to be as close to race ready as possible with streetablilty still available. There are S2000's on the track with stock heads that are running very strong. The majority of builders that I have met and talked to will get rid of the casting marks in the runners and ports and then shave the head down .030" to give a jump in compression while still maintaining a safe piston/valve clearance. If you do some research you will find that there is very, very, very little room to work with when it comes to porting. I personally removed the casting marks and port match the IM by hand and then had my machinist match the intake ports and get rid of the casting marks while removing as little material as he could. I did the same on the exhaust side.

The thing to remember is that a bigger port does not = better. A bigger port that maintains, or improves upon, the flow rate and characteristics will obviously be better, but I have yet to find anyone who has significantly improved on the flow characteristics of a stock S2k head. My motor is running with the before mentioned p&p work and 11.5 compression. I put everything together for efficiency and to support other modifications I have planned. If you jump into the S2000 and start porting away at things hoping for D series, B series, H series, Accord F series, gains you will be very dissapointed.

[S2KCRick]

So the question about durability of the engine w/the stroker kit. Does it make it better or worse?

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by S2KCRick

Yea that was directed to Turbo, about possibly doing more damage than good.

So what do you think? maybe 25hp at the most for port n polish? im just guessing based what my crx was doing.

it depends on soooooooooo many variables its really hard to generalize...

120hp/l naturally aspirated is a still a big deal. it is easier to do on smaller motors of course but the R&D involved in getting a head to flow well enough to support that is very involved.... to improve upon it you need to be able to see where honda had to cut corners for reasons like:

cost
emissions
mass production limitations
drivability

once you know where the engineers wanted to go to make more power but were limited because it wasnt about making the most hp/l but about making a capable 2.0l powerplant for their neat little 2 roadster... then you can make small changes and see what type of gains they net you.

but with that said... now we are talking about a 2.5l motor with a lower redline and larger displacement.

is the stock head still sufficient because of the lower redline?

can we port the head without losing velocity and power?

its just so complicated on a n/a car... FI is always easier and better because the compressed air helps mask inefficiencies by just forcing as much air in the cylinder as possible.

[klunk768]

I have an S2000 with 12.5 to 1 compression, 2.38 litres on throttle bodies, it makes a genuine 275bhp+ at the flywheel and 235 at the wheels, on throttle bodies, ive read lots of rubbish on people getting 300bhp with 2.3 litres and I think this is just rolling roads that aren't calibrated correctly.I don't see how you could get 2.7 litres, the stroke would be of no use, I run 97mm and the piston speed at 8500 revs is approx 28.5m/s.

[Honda007]

As was said before polishing the head on the S is almost useless unless it was absolutely necessary, in which case mugen or spoon I think would be able to do it(if not done it already). I'm pretty sure both those companies make N/A kits. Generally any modification on a factory vehicle reduces reliability. Reliabililty relies on the qualitiy and sanitation of the build and the parts, along side Engineering and Design of course.