Stop Modifying Perfection

[frontline762]

You know I thought there would be a lot more Honda enthusiasts in here, but all I'm seeing is a bunch of ricers with fartpipes and intakes and cheap ass ugly aftermarket rims on their S2000s
Stop Raping this vehicle guys, seriously The fastest cleanest S is one thats factory and the maintenance is kept up on it. I mean yea you gotta lower it, I'm not that prude....But lower it the right way. If you didn't compare the Camber Caster and Toe before and after the Lowering procedure then you messed up. Honda's Specs on these three settings is what makes this vehicle handle so well on the tracks straight off the showroom...then you mess it up by slapping on some lowering springs, without resetting the camber caster and toe on the front and rear to the factory specs, or euro.
Now force inducting, hey thats what's up....but other than that all this money it seems like all of these people are wasting on mufflers and intakes and headers and stuff just throws off hondas engineering into this motor and it ends up being a slower car. Now I've never ran up on a S with a blower....But all the ones ive ran at the track(and Im not a dragstrip fanatic I just wanted a baseline) with fartpipes and intakes and all that stuff got walked on by my stock ass 07S.
It ended up clickin off a 14.10 @ 99mph (without lowering tire pressure) I think if I did it wouldve broke 14s...all the other S's that were out there ran 14.4's and up....wait there was one other one that ran a 14.3 but all he had was an intake...I think K&N if Im not mistaken...
But what is everyones thoughts on this matter.....I mean bashing my opinion is welcomed...I got thick skin

[Vezna31]

Dude...what's up with posting the same post in every single forum??

I think people will get your opinion just reading it once. It's pretty obvious that you're pretty upfront with your opinion, but have some respect for what other people might like instead of being rather negative and putting people down for what they like to do with "their" toys.

[s2000isu]

Is this guy serious? You know you sound alot like one of these "hardcore" 15 year old car enthusiasts. You know the kind that get the idea a car is godly without ever even sitting in one. That or a tool.


Ps
We didnt need to see your post 3 times we didnt care the first time and we dont care the third.

[bobby2002S2K]

lol, yea man!

[Java Junky]

'S'a funny word "Perfection". Leastwise, it is ta this ol' dog.
It seems to waiver, y'know? Sometimes it's a turnkey don'-godda-do-nothin'-tooitt, n' sometimes it's a do-it-yourself hot-rod, complete with all the teethin' pains n' all the little piecey-parts bouncin' aroun' on the groun' in your wake. ("Personal satisfaction" is what we aught'a be tryin' ta gedda handle on ta my way'a thinkin'.)
Stewie's a great oud'a-the-box sweet ride n' I enjoy the hell oud'a it, but perfection? Not bloody likely.
I don't think I'm tellin' nobody nothin' when I say I aint' big on "modifyin" it, only 'cause, outside'a a turbo r' a huffer (Yes. Java eats crow jus' like everybody else.) I don't see the hard-earned bringin' in enough "improvement" for what's spent. We use'ta call it "unobtainium" with the bikes.
But harp, whine, n' lay on the floor kickin' in screamin' like an ill-mannered 5 year old, while I don't see the wisdom innitt, the Stewie n' the hard-earned involved 'r bought n' paid for by someone else n' . . . that's simply their call, ain't it?
'Whole bunch'a stuff I don't understand. 'S'jus' the way'a things, y'know?
Be well.
Java

[kgf3076]

Originally Posted by frontline762

If you didn't compare the Camber Caster and Tow before and after the Lowering procedure then you messed up. Honda's Specs on these three settings is what makes this vehicle handle so well on the tracks straight off the showroom...then you mess it up by slapping on some lowering springs, without resetting the camber caster and tow on the front and rear to the factory specs.

Okay, I agree with a lot of this but there are a couple of things that need attention...first it's not TOW, it's TOE as in TOE-IN (ignore the following unless you want to know what Toe, caster and camber mean. Borrowed liberally from Wikipedia)

(toe is the symmetric angle that each wheel makes with the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, as a function of static geometry, and kinematic and compliant effects. This can be contrasted with steer, which is the antisymmetric angle, i.e. both wheels point to the left or right, in parallel (roughly). Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing in towards the centreline of the vehicle. Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centreline of the vehicle. Toe can be measured in linear units, at the front of the tire, or as an angular deflection. In a rear wheel drive car, increased front toe in (i.e. the fronts of the front wheels are closer together than the backs of the front wheels) provides greater straight-line stability at the cost of some sluggishness of turning response, as well as a little more tire wear as they are now driving a bit sideways.

Toe is always adjustable in production automobiles, even though caster angle and camber angle are often not adjustable. Maintenance of front end alignment, which used to involve all three adjustments, currently involves only setting the toe; in most cases, even for a car in which caster or camber are adjustable, only the toe will need adjustment) or way more than you ever wanted to know..

secondly, there are different specifications for American S2000's and European S2000's. Which one is correct?

[Dr. Jimbo]

Stick to s2ki dude.

[HELL_ON_WHEELS]

LOL

[desmo4]

I stick with Mugen for as much as I can and I would bet I can out corner your stock 07 in a heart beat. Mon amis you wish to race.

Jonathan

[Vezna31]

I was the only person online when this guy was trolling around. It was times like then that I wish I could moderate more than just the San Diego forum. There is nothing worse than a troll coming in acting like he knows everything in the world and puts down what everyone thinks, does or feels about what they want to do with their own car. Even though I am not one to mod, you still have to respect that it may be what another person likes.

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by kgf3076

secondly, there are different specifications for American S2000's and European S2000's. Which one is correct?

Basically, whichever one you like better is the correct one. Everyone I talked to who had a Euro spec alignment said how much better the car handled with it. I went and tried it and took the car to the track and I could really feel the difference. The car was really planted and I wasn't nearly as loose as I had been at previous track days. That being said, the Euro spec will wear your rear tires out quicker because you are running -2 camber with .25 toe-in each side. I believe the American spec is -1 and 0 toe-in.

[jagg]

if the car is already "perfection" ,
why the need for a baseline? why the need to be lowered?

okay, i'm your huckleberry.....
i thought dragstrippin' was for folks that don't know how to heel and toe. they've got roads with turns in 'em in columbus right?

all right, i'm funning on ya.

have a wonderful day, and keep your head out of your third point of contact super trooper.

regards, jagg.

[kgf3076]

I should have said "by your definition", I wanted to see what he had to say about "correct" and not modifying the S2000. I agree, the Euro spec alignment definitely gives a tighter feel but "that's changing (American)" perfection .

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by kgf3076

I should have said "by your definition", I wanted to see what he had to say about "correct" and not modifying the S2000. I agree, the Euro spec alignment definitely gives a tighter feel but "that's changing (American)" perfection .

Ah...my bad. Yes...we should let our "new voice of reason" answer all of our imbecile questions.

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by jagg

they've got roads with turns in 'em in columbus right?

Only dirt roads from what I remember on "Dukes of Hazzard"...Yeee-haaaa!!

[jagg]

hey vez,

i'm roscoe peeeeee coltrain!!

[frontline762]

desmo4 I love Mugen...and yes you car would out corner mine....If you read carefully I reffered to cheap parts that were inferior to OEM. Not everyone would spend $3600 for Mugen's complete kit though....u feel me? So If people can't spend money the right way dont change it at all....trust me I know which brands to trust and not trust...and ofcourse I would trust Hondas biological brother's company too...lol

[frontline762]

Vezna31 you right and I respect the loud annoying ricers right along with us that just keep it clean and low key. The fact is the S doesnt "need" to be lowered....but we all got a little rice left in us common. The factory suspension runs awesome track times.

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by frontline762

You know I thought there would be a lot more Honda enthusiasts in here, but all I'm seeing is a bunch of ricers with fartpipes and intakes and cheap ass ugly aftermarket rims on their S2000s

There's not a hint of respect in your first statement. That's what I have a problem with. I also read every one of your posts and they are all in the same tone. If you can't play nice, you're not going to make too many friends here. I would think think there would be more respect from a military guy since that what is drilled into your every day living. Pretty sad that in 1 day, you've managed to piss off just about every regular poster with your "OEM perfect" knowledge.

[frontline762]

Guys stop dissecting the word perfection, perfect in my opinion...compared to 1999 and older Hondas. We never had a stock track car till the S came out. Even Si's had their faults...oh and, I'm comparing to all the other Hondas I've owed BTW....Never owned a Type-R but best believe if I did it would stay relatively stock as well.

[Dr. Jimbo]

Right on my brother! (I'm talking to you, Vez)

[frontline762]

Haha....so why is everyone pissed off though? It's not like I'm physically taking off everyone's "race" parts on their S's and selling them....Its a FORUM man chill out...
And what the hell does me being in the military have to do with all of this dude. Seriously. I'm just tired of deploying....where have you been?

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by frontline762

Haha....so why is everyone pissed off though? It's not like I'm physically taking off everyone's "race" parts on their S's and selling them....Its a FORUM man chill out...
And what the hell does me being in the military have to do with all of this dude. Seriously. I'm just tired of deploying....where have you been?

Because you're being a troll.

[frontline762]

So in the name of advancement, I'm sorry for everyone I pissed off....seriously I didn't know it was such a touchy subject.

[SXY_S2K]

Originally Posted by frontline762

Haha....so why is everyone pissed off though? It's not like I'm physically taking off everyone's "race" parts on their S's and selling them....Its a FORUM man chill out...
And what the hell does me being in the military have to do with all of this dude. Seriously. I'm just tired of deploying....where have you been?

We are all trying to be nice and put up with your rudeness. It is unnecessary. Your posts make no sense. Please do us all a favor and go away... Negativity has no place in this community... Forums are for friends and advice, not bashing and rudeness just because you have nothing better to do. YOUR idea of a forum is very apparently not what s2000.com is all about...

[frontline762]

I seriously wanna speak with someone who taken out the clutch delay on the AP2's and how is that working for you....I hate the fact that when you shift quick it sounds like my clutch is slipping

[Java Junky]

There! It's @*#&in' merged!
I need a @*#&in' drink!
Neanderthals ain't meant ta punch keys.
Where'z Sam when ya need'im?
N' remember: if you're not gonna say anythin' nice . . . don't leave any witnesses.
Be well. Play nice.
Java

[jagg]

right here sir,

that'll be a triple? , if you'll allow me to presume as much.

[s2000isu]

Ya what is the drink of choice? I am really feeling a good rum and coke havent had one in a while.

[JDM06S]

Originally Posted by frontline762

I seriously wanna speak with someone who taken out the clutch delay on the AP2's and how is that working for you....I hate the fact that when you shift quick it sounds like my clutch is slipping

so let me get this straight. u should not change perfection but u want remove the delay valve in the slave cylinder. if ur car is perfect why remove it. it is the way honda wanted it built right. i think u need to make a bit more sense. just cause what u dont think should be done to the car dosen't mean other pepole don't want to try or do it.

[05S2K4ME]

I seriously wanna speak with someone who taken out the clutch delay on the AP2's and how is that working for you....I hate the fact that when you shift quick it sounds like my clutch is slipping

Honda has reasons for everything. The clutch delay on the AP2's was there to keep the driveline from imploding from 8,000 rpm drops from individuals who think of their S2K's as 1/4 mile cars instead of canyon carvers. Also, do not think that because you are in the miltary (which I appreciate, since I am retired from the military) that everyone on this board understands what you are talking about. Calm down my friend and your posts will be appreciated.

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by 05S2K4ME

Honda has reasons for everything. The clutch delay on the AP2's was there to keep the driveline from imploding from 8,000 rpm drops from individuals who think of their S2K's as 1/4 mile cars instead of canyon carvers. Also, do not think that because you are in the miltary (which I appreciate, since I am retired from the military) that everyone on this board understands what you are talking about. Calm down my friend and your posts will be appreciated.

OMG...a Mike sighting

[Java Junky]

05, I'm the worst offender when it comes to wierd-speak, but I didn't get the military'a what was said in frontline's (If that's it, I think he's referrin' to the anti tick/flea medication) post.
It's jus' that I hate bein' the only bozo who misses the punch line, y'know?
Thanks in advance n' be well.
Java

[Dr. Jimbo]

Hey, this thread is more fun than the "post something about the user above" thread.

[HELL_ON_WHEELS]

HAHA I'm with Doc on this one

[s2000isu]

Ya and it grew pretty fast hahaha

[bobby2002S2K]

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Only dirt roads from what I remember on "Dukes of Hazzard"...Yeee-haaaa!!

lol, hey man i'm in columbus!!

[bobby2002S2K]

Hey look guys I know Frontline personally i've worked with him for about 2 yrs and we both served in the 101st together. Hes a good dude, rough start on our forum. Beleive me he really ment no offence to anyone lets just drop the bull@#$@ and welcome the guy?

[Java Junky]

Ease up Bob. Is there a smokin' hole where he once stood?
We love the guy. Hell! (No! Siddown Morg!) I even merged two of his threads! 'Ain't never done that for nobody else.
N' I'm with doc on this one: frontline's brought everybody ta life.
Okay, so call me slow. "Frontline"s the military thing that 05 was referrin' to?
'Totally missed it. 'Ain't the sharpest tool in the shed I guess 'r maybe I jus' spend too much time with my mutts.
Bob, I thought we did a pretty fair job'a welcomin' 'im. No nastiness . . . a fair amount'a difference of opinion (I believe frontline'll agree to that) thrown hard up against the wall, but no foul.
Quite frankly, frontline came in swingin' n' I think he intended to get everyone's attention.
Now, if he'd'a started singin' the praises of a Mustang . . .
Be well.
Java

[s2ook]

Ok Frontline asked for opinions on modifying so here's mine.

Personally I don't like the 'ricer' look. It's usually all bling to the detriment of performance which, is partly, what the OP is intimating above. Plenty of people like the OEM look and that's fine. Each to their own. I'd rather improve performance whilst personalising the car. Whilst the S2000 is perhaps an example of a car with fewer comprises in the manufacturing stage than others, there's no doubt the handling, aesthetics, sound and engine performance can be improved (although in the case of aesthetics and sound, this is subjective). This is why aftermarket tuners such as ASM, Spoon, Mugen, Buddy club, Toda, J's etc. exist. However, fitting such items is an expensive practice and in some cases, unnecessary depending upon the individual's requirements.

For example, I've recently fitted an AEM V2 which i) adds HP, ii) makes the car sound better (to me) and iii) looks better (to me). In terms of performance all evidence suggests it is on a par, and, in most cases, better than other induction kits. So, is it then worth paying 4 times as much for a Mugen CF kit? For me, no. Arguably it looks better but i'm not really interested in that, and certainly not for the price. It's a compromise and there are certainly aftermarket parts which perform as well and sometimes better than some of the tuners mentioned above at a far more affordable price. This doesn't mean the modifying is not being 'done properly'.

I also believe that fitting aftermarket parts and, most importantly, researching the parts available to make informed decisions, helps one to understand the car better.

Just my 2p worth...