Alignment specs

[gomarlins3]

From Kevin (mlc):
Here are the UK specs for AP1.

Honda (UK) Recommended Optimum Specification

Front
Caster Left 6° 45"
Caster Right 6° 45"
Camber Left -1° 00"
Camber Right -1° 00"
Toe Left 0° 0"
Toe Right 0° 0"
Total Toe 0° 0"

Rear
Camber Left -2° 00"
Camber Right -2° 00"
Toe Left 0° 20"
Toe Right 0° 20"
Total Toe 0° 40"

[gomarlins3]

From Pedel faster on S2KI:

A proper alignment is important for autocrossing, and compared to the other changes you'll be making, a bargain at less than $100. Individual alignments vary, but for the AP1 cars, the general consensus falls in the following ranges:

• Front toe - 0" to 1/8" toe out
• Front camber - -1.5 to -1.75 degrees
• Rear toe - 1/4" to 3/8" toe in
• Rear camber - -2.0 to -2.25 degrees

If you want it straight from the horses' mouths, here are alignment settings posted by the top three finishers at the 2003 Nationals:

• Jason Saini (Jason Saini) (Moton shocks)
• Andy McKee (s2k2fast4me) (scroll to near the bottom of the first post) (Penske shocks) (this post is from the 2002 Nationals)
• Ian Stewart (Mrsideways) (Koni shocks) (Ian's alignment is notable because he uses zero toe in the rear, perhaps contributing to his handle "Mrsideways")

Each driver's shock choice is noted since cars on stock shocks tend to be rather more twitchy than cars on aftermarket units. Drivers with stock shocks may want to consider more conservative settings (e.g. more rear toe-in or less front camber). Likewise, alignment settings should be adjusted for cars not running a 1.25" solid front sway bar or staggered tire sizes.

[gomarlins3]

Factory specs for AP1:

Factory alignment spec
Front
Camber -0.5d +/- 0.17d
Caster +6.0d +/- 0.25d
Total Toe In 0+/- 2mm
Rear
Camber -1.5d +/- 0.17d
Total Toe In 6mm

[gomarlins3]

What I believe are the specs for AP2, but I may be incorrect, Anyone confirm or correct?:

Front Left/Right
Camber -0.2deg/-0.5deg
Caster 7.8deg/5.7deg
Toe -0.05"/-0.10"

Rear Left/Right
Camber -1.4deg/-1.8deg
Toe 0.1"/0.07"

[D1sclaimer]

Can we make this a sticky? This is awesome information put in one post.

[edric.80]

wow, thanks... I got AP1 with stock shock but my tire change already to the AP2 wheels, so I got front 215/45/17 and the rear 255/40/17.
so which spec I should do??
and in the future i want to change the front one to 225/45/17.. is it going to be better??

[gomarlins3]

Originally Posted by D1sclaimer

Can we make this a sticky?

It already is.

[gomarlins3]

Originally Posted by edric.80

so which spec I should do??

Which ever one you like best.

[4406pack]

I like your new avatar GO, very nice...

[rusyus]

What are the specs for AP2? I mean UK specs, for better handling?

[LBC S2K]

BUMP - I'm looking for UK Specs for an AP2 also ...

[mlc]

There were no UK specs for the AP2. That alignment was done in the UK after they were complaining about the car having a tendency to oversteer. The suspension was revised on the AP2 so hence they didn't have a different alignment for it.

Kevin

[L8Apex]

The track specs that I got happy with on my AP2 were

Front
Max Caster but matched, got 6.4°
Camber -1.7°
Total Toe Out ⅛"

Rear
Camber -2.1°
Total Toe o" (no toe)

I don't think that I'll do any more experimentation beyond this.

On my AP1, I had a lot more toe out in the front and substantial toe in in the rear.

[jagg]

That's good to know Apex.

How's the streetability?

jagg

[chazdawg35]

Hey Dudes I just got my alignment doe and here is what it is set at BTW works Bitchin' Front Camber- right -0.7 left -0.7, Caster right 5.8 left 5.7, Toe right 0.0mm left 0.0mm Rear Camber- right -1.9 left -1.9, Toe right 3.0mm left 2.8mm

[L8Apex]

Originally Posted by jagg

How's the streetability?

The only issue is the uneven wear on the front skins because of the toe. I take most turns pretty fast so the quick entry response from the front toe is okay with me. I thought that it might be twitchy in a straight line but that's not the case.

[jagg]

Thanks Apex.

[LBC S2K]

OK, no UK Specs for an AP2 ... so does anyone have suggestions for what would be a touch more aggressive setting? MY07, I'm dropped on Swifts w/ Koni Yellows - with Direzza Z1 Star Specs. Maybe just Factory settings on Toe and Caster, then pushing the Rear Camber out a bit more? This is my DD, but I want to have the rear firmly planted / at the same time not COMPLETELY destroy the tires on the inside. Suggestions?

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by LBC S2K

OK, no UK Specs for an AP2 ... so does anyone have suggestions for what would be a touch more aggressive setting? MY07, I'm dropped on Swifts w/ Koni Yellows - with Direzza Z1 Star Specs. Maybe just Factory settings on Toe and Caster, then pushing the Rear Camber out a bit more? This is my DD, but I want to have the rear firmly planted / at the same time not COMPLETELY destroy the tires on the inside. Suggestions?

camber wont wear out your tires... toe is the real killer

[LBC S2K]

Someone mentioned going with CR Alignment specs ... any thoughts on going that route?

[leo520]

any uk specs for the ap2?

is so please post..

ths

[steveray]

Does the specs change if you have bigger tires ?? Im running 265/35/18 on the rear and before I got new tires and an alignment my rear tires were wearing real bad from the inside out. Old tires lasted about 4000 miles and the insides were gone. Now, I got new tires and alignment and Im still worried my tires are still wearing from the inside out. After a short drive I felt the tires and the inside was hot and the outside was cold on both tires !!! WTF ?? Tires are too expensive to be replacing after 3-4000 miles. Any help would be great.........??? Do I need to have different settings than stock ? They have the rear specs on my car @
Camber -1.5 deg on the left and -1.4 deg on the right
toe 18 deg on the left and 20 deg on the right
They claim
camber -1.7 to -1.3 deg
toe .16 to .32 deg as the specified specs factory settings ??
Are they ok ?

[gomarlins3]

The more negative camber you run, the more the inside of the tire will wear.

[TheCarGuy2021]

Originally Posted by steveray

Does the specs change if you have bigger tires ?? Im running 265/35/18 on the rear and before I got new tires and an alignment my rear tires were wearing real bad from the inside out. Old tires lasted about 4000 miles and the insides were gone. Now, I got new tires and alignment and Im still worried my tires are still wearing from the inside out. After a short drive I felt the tires and the inside was hot and the outside was cold on both tires !!! WTF ?? Tires are too expensive to be replacing after 3-4000 miles. Any help would be great.........??? Do I need to have different settings than stock ? They have the rear specs on my car @
Camber -1.5 deg on the left and -1.4 deg on the right
toe 18 deg on the left and 20 deg on the right
They claim
camber -1.7 to -1.3 deg
toe .16 to .32 deg as the specified specs factory settings ??
Are they ok ?

Toe is the main alignment factor that causes tire wear. If your toe is .18 degrees L .20 degrees R, that really stands out as a tire killer as they are .38 degrees in opposite direction (total toe), which is a considerable amount. Then again, positive toe means toe in, which would likely lead to outer tire wear/scuffing. Try getting your camber back to -1 degree on each side and get that toe fixed, as GM3 said excessive negative camber will wear the insides. No toe is good toe!

[wgrandmont]

My owners manual says:
front camber -.5 degrees
front toe 0" to out 1/16"
caster 6 degrees I'm going from memory so I might be off on the caster a little.

Rear camber -1.5 degrees
Rear toe in .15" total

For Auto cross I have:

Front camber -1.75 degrees
Front Caster + 4 degress or as close as you can get
Front Toe I have set at 0" but 1/16" out is acceptable

Rear Camber -2 degrees or as close as possible
Rear Toe 1/4" In

I run R-compounds for Racing. This setting is a little twitchy on the street but no bad. If the road is smooth you don't notice anything different.

This works well, and as it turns out when I took it to my Goodyear shop for a percision alignment they already had it in the computer as an acceptable performance setting from Honda.

[angelo_s2k]

My current Camber/Caster/Toe settings for my '05 AP2:

-Front toe - 1/8" OUT
-Front caster - +5.5degs
-Front camber - -1.5 degs
-Rear toe - 1/4" IN
-Rear camber - -2.1 degs

When I had my alignment done, the front right wheel camber maxed out at -1.9degs, while the front left wheel did at -1.5degs. Then, the front right was brought back to match the left front wheel settings.

Street driving conditions: The car behaves very much as stock, perhaps with a better steering response.
Autocross conditions: Sweeping curves performance has improved considerably. I wonder what my AP2 does on the skid-pad. I hope it can make it up to the 0.92g lateral acceleration as of the AP1... Slalom performance requires the driver to be some what more awake, as the loading on the car shifts from one side to the other...it wants to bite when on the edge...

Street driving and autocrossing is done with the stock tire configuration, using Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec. I'm not that worried on the tires wear, the alignment was done when they were at more than half way done. Next upgrade will be a set of R comp tires...perhaps next year

I found some useful info at the honda press release site:
http://corporate.honda.com/press/art...20010221001307
although, I couldn't get a hold of the for the AP2 tech specs in there.

[jake2k]

This thread is awesome thanks GO

[wgrandmont]

I have an accelerometer in my car when I race. Don't know how accurate it is. But, I was getting 1 g on street tires part of the time on wet asphalt. On R compounds I can get a consistant 1.25 G with an occasional spike higher. The longer I can hold the car at the higher g levels the better my times. I don't know how the accelerometer would compare to timing laps on a skid pad.