Rear end a little too happy

JDMHonda · 05-28-2009, 09:14 PM

So ive had my car for 2 and a half months now and im getting used to it fast. I noticed something weird today about my car. On the freeway going 65 miles per hour when i downshifted into 5th, the rear would go off to a side for just a second. Also, when i took it on some twisties on a local mountain, i took a turn at around 55 MPH and the rear kicked out. i $hit in my pants. I was wondering whether all S2k's are like this or because mines limp. My guess is that its either because my alignment isn't right (and it isnt) or its because i have different branded tires in the back BUT same specs. Anyone else have an S thats too @ss happy?

Java Junky · 05-28-2009, 09:40 PM

It probably hasn't anything to do with your alignment JD.
Stewie's a pretty sophisticated ride.
When something is as finely tuned as Stewie is, very little input (sometimes barely noticeable) makes very big differences at the handling end of things.
First off, if your tires and pressures are where they're suppose to be, that's always a good starting point.
It's all about Stewie's attitude.
Phil likez to stress how driving Stewie's all about smooth, and I couldn't agree with him more.
Any change in Stewie's weight distribution (attitude) can cause major changes in handling. Rapid changes can cause big-time OH *@&#!!!!s.
When you're shifting (even while going in a straight line) you're letting up on the gas and that lets up on the squash of the rear suspension as the wheels go from propelling Stewie to just free-wheeling. There's also a bit of torque let-up going on as you allow the revs to drop as you make the shift.
I figure that somewhere in all that attitude change lies your "going off to a side for a second."
Now, as for corners: Stewie's always had a real rep for not taking lightly someone taking their foot out of it when they're in a corner.
Power applied judiciously through a turn allows Stewie to shine and when you come out the other end you'll be giggling to yourself.
Go into that same turn and too quickly let up on the gas (attitude: you've just messed with rear traction) and the smooth traction that your rear wheelz were enjoying is history as you've again let up on the squash of the rear suspension as the rear wheels go from propelling to free-wheeling.
Final tally has you getting up-close-and-personal with the landscape you were just motoring past.

s2kx2 · 05-28-2009, 09:44 PM

Get thee to a driving school after you check the compatibility of your front/rears tires. To answer your question YES ALL S2000s are "tail happy" and will bite ... HARD the unwary driver! If you came from a front wheel driven car you may have a steep learning curve. AP-1s are more nervous and tail happy than AP-2s and I would suggest (and don't take this the wrong way) you chill out a little before this car kills you because S2000s will not suffer fools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMHonda

So ive had my car for 2 and a half months now and im getting used to it fast. I noticed something weird today about my car. On the freeway going 65 miles per hour when i downshifted into 5th, the rear would go off to a side for just a second. Also, when i took it on some twisties on a local mountain, i took a turn at around 55 miles per hour and the rear kicked out. i $hit in my pants. I was wondering whether all S2k's are like this or because mines limp. My guess is that its either because my alignment isn't right (and it isnt) or its because i have different branded tires in the back BUT same specs. Anyone else have an S thats too @ss happy?

Java Junky · 05-28-2009, 09:58 PM

Oh yeah: x2'z right on'a money with the AP1 less forgivin' than the AP2.

JDMHonda · 05-28-2009, 10:23 PM

Ok thanks a lot for the huge paragraph. I get what your saying. My tire pressures are at 32 at all corners and i dont have traction control for it to take care of wheelspin. Theres no change in weight distribution also because my car is bone stock. So what your saying Java is take the turns fast and dont take your foot off the gas? i didnt understand you so well back there.

s2kx2 i get what your saying. And yes, i do come from a front wheel drive CR-V.

So this has NOTHING to do with different branded and different design but same spec tires in the rear OR the alignment issue?

philiam · 05-28-2009, 10:24 PM

The steering is quite quick. Beginners tend to over compensate and the next thing you know you're facing the other way. The S isn't all that tail happy. Try driving a rear engine car sometime. The car is balanced and once you learn to drive it you can control the back end. Slow down and the car is quite civilized. Get used to it and work your way up gradually. A great car does not a great driver make.

s2kx2 · 05-28-2009, 10:37 PM

JDMHonda and Philiam,

Why don't you two pair up and come on the drive this Saturday off of the 15 and Deer Springs road with the San Diego crew? Woodland Hills and Glendale are not that far from each other? We are going to Julian for breakfast up Mt. Palomar and it should be a pretty good turnout. Be nice to put a faces to the names. CHAZDAWG35 you gonna come play this weekend?

JDMHonda · 05-28-2009, 10:39 PM

Id actually love to come because ive never been to an S2000 meet/drive BUT its my 18th birthday and that happens only once. If it was next Saturday, id be first to sign up.

J'sS2K · 05-28-2009, 10:57 PM

ok did you use heel-toe or rev-match downshift?

philiam · 05-28-2009, 11:18 PM

Sorry, can't make it. Thanks for the invite though.

Scooter · 05-29-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philiam

The steering is quite quick. Beginners tend to over compensate and the next thing you know you're facing the other way. The S isn't all that tail happy. Try driving a rear engine car sometime. The car is balanced and once you learn to drive it you can control the back end. Slow down and the car is quite civilized. Get used to it and work your way up gradually. A great car does not a great driver make.

Exactly right. My first month was full of tail slides, actually quite fun, and then one day I "got it" and kept it under control and figured out that it wasn't the car, it was me. Several years since then, I only slide when I want to - it's actually hard to do, believe it or not JDM, once you stop doing it. I think it's totally natural for new S drivers, especially former front wheel drive owners like me. Have fun!

H20 · 05-29-2009, 03:12 AM

I think different brand tires is a bad idea personally, but sometimes unavoidable. You have different sidewall flex. Tire pressures are very important right down to a pound or two. You might try 31/33 or something like that. Alignment is also very important. Everything is important on these cars. It shouldnt kick left when straight line shifting. Be carefull with it. You are only 18. What tires and sizes are you running?
When things are not exactly right you need to be extra carefull!

mlc · 05-29-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMHonda

Ok thanks a lot for the huge paragraph. I get what your saying. My tire pressures are at 32 at all corners and i dont have traction control for it to take care of wheelspin. Theres no change in weight distribution also because my car is bone stock. So what your saying Java is take the turns fast and dont take your foot off the gas? i didnt understand you so well back there.

s2kx2 i get what your saying. And yes, i do come from a front wheel drive CR-V.

So this has NOTHING to do with different branded and different design but same spec tires in the rear OR the alignment issue?

I would say it has alot to do with diferent brand tires. Even if they are the same specs the sizes very greatly between manufactures. This car does not take to well to miss matched tires in the rear. I would definitely recommend get a set of matched tires for the back at least.

You say you have alignment issues. What issues? and how do you know?

And going from a CR-V to an S is like moving to China. It going to take a while to figure things out. Take your time!!

Kevin

Java Junky · 05-29-2009, 05:52 AM

JD, reread the tome.
I actually redid'itt'n English fer yuh.
N', obviously . . I ain't doon too good'a job'a gettin' whudd'I'm sayin' across (which should come'z no great surprise'da most).
Whudd'I'm sayin'izz'att you actually are getting change in weight distribution'n weight distribution over our 4 iddy-biddy liddle patchez'a traction'z'all we gott.
Think'a weight distribution'z translatin'a traction.
Change the revs and you've got some amount'a torque-induced weight distribution. If you're in'a corner'n you change yer revz alot'n suddenly'n you've got a gedd'oud'a-yer-line-free-card (Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.) at best. We don' wanna think worst.
If the road-level risez'r droppz under anythin' but all'a yer wheelz, you've got change in weight distribution.
Come over'a rise quick'n have yer wheelz reacquire traction in anythin' other than the way you launched'n you'd bedder be payin' big-time attention, bu'chull get my drift.
Itt'z all about the care'n feedin'a traction'n the maintainin' thereof.
x2'z suggestion'uv'a serious drivin' school'z my first choice, but if you kin spend some serious learnin' time, makin' intensity increasez in very gradual incrementz, all the while workin' on yer concentration on jus' how much available traction'z changin' as yer out puttin' Stewie through'er pacez . . . (jus' like most'a the rest'uv us did, I might add), you're gonna find the "surprisez"da be much less frequent'n the enjoyment'da be of the highest order.
(You mus' be new 'roun'eeze partz stranger. You thought that last'un wuzz'a long paragraph?)
Good luck JD.

jagg · 05-29-2009, 06:05 AM

I'm runnin' on 4 baloney skins........traction galore!!!

OP......Stewie don't hold the road so good when it's out of alignment.
Attitude's off, and that's bad.

jagg

mlc · 05-29-2009, 06:14 AM

Ahhh...is there anthing better then just a nice steady amount of gas into a corner and the feeling of the rear of the car just settle in and bite. It seems to say "is that all you got". Driven correctly this car is pretty amazing.

I would still suggest that you get any tire and alignment issues straghtened out before you start to enjoy the car.

Kevin

Java Junky · 05-29-2009, 06:24 AM

Sure!
Everybody jus' pudd'inn yer one'n two linerz'n make me look even more like the alphabet-spewin', long-winded weenie I am.
Real palz.

Jessa1200 · 05-29-2009, 06:43 AM

this was my first RWD car and mine has been a$$ happy 3 times while I was driivng and another 2 or so while my bf was driving, it took me sometime to get use to it and sometimes I forget and it gets a$$ happy mine just happens to be in front of EVERYONE, but eh whatever, idc as long as I dont hit anyone its fun!!! lol

Swingle1 · 05-29-2009, 07:30 AM

OP, welcome to the club. At thge end of the day, you've got a lot to learn. I don't mean that to come across as condescending. Everyone started out knowing nothing. Most of us (at least the smart ones) are STILL learning.

Suspension: Java's stringing together pearls of wisdom. Inertia and torque change everything. Different setups (tires, shocks, springs, etc) perform differently under different conditions.

Driving technique. You're a relatively new driver with little or no previous experience with a rwd car-- let alone a car with Stewie's performance characteristics.

The good news is that the lessons, as long as you're smart enough to pick the proper time and place, are an absolute blast. Take your time. Don't try to be a hero in front of your buddies (or even worse, your girlfriend).

I've been driving for close to 30 years. The S is not my first rwd car. But after 3 years, I'm still learning how to drive it. But that's one of the main reasons I love this car... I've got more lessons in front of me than you can shake a stick at! School is fun.

JDMHonda · 05-29-2009, 08:14 AM

Thanks a lot guys. I completely understand what you guys are trying to say now. im just gonna start taking it slowly and leanring it throughout the drive. Ill get my alignment fixed.

And thanks Java, for explaining it again in english.

H20, im running the stock tire sizes on AP2 V1 rims. How do i know the alignment is messed up, because my steering wheel isnt perfectly straight when my wheels are pointing straight. Also, it puls to the left at high speeds. This might be because of mismatched tire brands im not sure though.
thats why i want to come to one of the s2000 meets to have another s2 owner drive my car to see if its any different.

Java Junky · 05-29-2009, 09:13 AM

JD, until yuh gedd'a good, matched sett'a hoopz onn'er . . everythin'z preddy much speculation, y'know?
Yer life'n the livez'a those who you allow in the co-pilotz seat'r ridin' on yer hoopz JD. 'Most emphatically not the area where yuh wanna cheap-out.

lonestarbuzz · 05-29-2009, 09:14 AM

i think the problems would be solved with matching tires and an alignment.

Kalm_Traveler · 05-29-2009, 09:52 AM

hahah!!! was reading this and my jaw dropped at your first reply, JJ!!

Thought I was in another world for a minute or two as I read down the post and noticed that it was in sophistimacated regular ol' english!

JDMHonda - if you have 'OEM' tire sizes but not the Potenza S02 tires themselves, you should be running wider tires. There's a sticky in this part of the forum I believe.

gomarlins3 · 05-29-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestarbuzz

i think the problems would be solved with matching tires and an alignment.

Agreed.

desmo4 · 05-29-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDMHonda

Ok thanks a lot for the huge paragraph. I get what your saying. My tire pressures are at 32 at all corners and i dont have traction control for it to take care of wheelspin. Theres no change in weight distribution also because my car is bone stock. So what your saying Java is take the turns fast and dont take your foot off the gas? i didnt understand you so well back there.

s2kx2 i get what your saying. And yes, i do come from a front wheel drive CR-V.

So this has NOTHING to do with different branded and different design but same spec tires in the rear OR the alignment issue?

I stagger the pressures just as the wheels are staggered. I run rear 36 hot and front 32-33 hot. And smooth is the way you must drive this car. Down shifting without rev matching will un glue the rear on most rear drive cars but the S AP1 is much more pronounced. That's why they soften the AP2 suspension.

Jonathan

Vezna31 · 05-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desmo4

I stagger the pressures just as the wheels are staggered. I run rear 36 hot and front 32-33 hot. And smooth is the way you must drive this car. Down shifting without rev matching will un glue the rear on most rear drive cars but the S AP1 is much more pronounced. That's why they soften the AP2 suspension.

Jonathan

Jonathan, are you sure you run the rear tires at a higher pressure than the front? That is going to create even more tail happiness. I suggest 1-2 lbs lower rear pressure for a newbie until they get used to the car. Even when I hit the mountains or the track, I lower my rear pressures by 1 lb.

And to the OP...NEVER lift off the gas in this car if you get tail happy. What you are doing when lifting is shifting weight to the front. If the rear is already light and you let off shifting more weight to the front, you will find yourself facing the wrong way in a hurry.

jagg · 05-29-2009, 06:01 PM

I'm with you Vez. I run softer on the ass end. Feels good. Man, I eat rear tires. Fronts wear well.

jagg

mlc · 05-29-2009, 06:52 PM

Everyone should drive the original MY00. They didn't play with the setup in this car. Bigger sway bar in the rear then the front. The whole package was setup for oversteer...on purpose

like it should be.

Yes you turn the steering wheel to turn the car but you drive the car with the gas pedal. I put the UK alignment in it to settle the rear some but I drive the car with my a$$. And when you do it right there is almost no better feeling in the world.

Kevin

philiam · 05-29-2009, 07:26 PM

One other thing. Make sure you're in the lower gear before starting a turn. Shifting in the middle of a turn will make for an interesting ride.

s2kx2 · 05-29-2009, 08:14 PM

+ 1 Kevin

QUOTE=mlc;93304]Everyone should drive the original MY00. They didn't play with the setup in this car. Bigger sway bar in the rear then the front. The whole package was setup for oversteer...on purpose

like it should be.

Yes you turn the steering wheel to turn the car but you drive the car with the gas pedal. I put the UK alignment in it to settle the rear some but I drive the car with my a$$. And when you do it right there is almost no better feeling in the world.

Kevin[/quote]

Swingle1 · 05-29-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desmo4

I stagger the pressures just as the wheels are staggered. I run rear 36 hot and front 32-33 hot. And smooth is the way you must drive this car. Down shifting without rev matching will un glue the rear on most rear drive cars but the S AP1 is much more pronounced. That's why they soften the AP2 suspension.

Jonathan

What PSIs are you running when you measure cold?

And just curious-- when you say "hot", what's the temp?

And why on earth would you reduce the contact patch of the rear wheels relative to the fronts on a car that tends to oversteer?

Java Junky · 05-29-2009, 08:51 PM

Yep.
'Run slightly higher up front'n lower in'a back'da keep the oversteer monster . . well . . if not in check, at least slightly hamstrung.
N', x2? 'Yer so right. There'z damned liddle whut pleasez me more'n doon'a corner proper-like.
(Though, one'a the thingz more pleasin'z that clear spin-out room when fer whutever reason traction duzz'a disappearin' act . . . 'z happenz now'n ag'in.)

sfkjeld · 06-04-2009, 06:18 PM

I am afraid I have to agree. I think the S2k is a bit of a handful to drive. I have spoken with a lot of guys about it and heard a lot of opinions. Sure, track time etc will help you manage it better. Track time will help with any car tho. The rear end is twitchy and the snap oversteer is quite real. Have heard a number of fixes to mitigate, but have not invested in one, other than alignment and tire setup.

I am no engineer, but I think part of the prob is weight. The distribution is fine, but the car is pretty heavy for an otherwise small sportscar. I came to the S2000 from a Boxster S (which I hate with a passion, but that's another opera in itself). Surprisingly, these cars weigh about the same. Yet the dimensions of the Boxster, wheel track, contact patch and certainly it's displacement, are that of a larger car. I have to admit tho, the Boxster was more predictable in high speed corners than the S2000. But it was also unpredictable when the engine blew apart at 33k mi. And there again, is that other opera.

Well, here is a posting by a guy that knows a lot more about it than I do. I found this just after buying my car. If your car is stock, this might be interesting to you too.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...rticle_id=3206

desmo4 · 06-04-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Jonathan, are you sure you run the rear tires at a higher pressure than the front? That is going to create even more tail happiness. I suggest 1-2 lbs lower rear pressure for a newbie until they get used to the car. Even when I hit the mountains or the track, I lower my rear pressures by 1 lb.

And to the OP...NEVER lift off the gas in this car if you get tail happy. What you are doing when lifting is shifting weight to the front. If the rear is already light and you let off shifting more weight to the front, you will find yourself facing the wrong way in a hurry.

My error. I wasn't dyslexic until I wrote that post. 36 hot in front and 33 hot in rear.

Jonathan

angelo_s2k · 06-05-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomarlins3

Agreed.

Agreed too.

During my first 2 years with my AP2, I've had several episodes of low speed city driving with the tail coming out. I have yet a lot to learn about this machine. Since year 2007 ,I've been attending to a few autocrosses to push the S and undertsand it better. It's relatively cheap and safe. You'll meet folks with Ss, and their opinions more or less always converge. Within the stock class, the settings that matter (with stock tire sizes - that's what I run): tire pressure, tire tread wear compound and alignment are big part of the equation!

wgrandmont · 06-05-2009, 12:24 PM

I didn't catch what year you have but the 07's and on have vehicle stability control, so you have to work pretty hard on the street to get the back end coming around. I had a precision alignment done for autocross purposes and the shop set the rear toe in at .25 degrees in instead of .25" (inches) in. I had never had any problems with the rear getting away from me until then. Even with a heavy front sway bar once the rear traction broke the back end just snapped around with no way to save it. Once I set the rear toe in to .25" I was able to lighten up on the front sway bar and have had no further problems. Oh, and I agree with whom ever said you steer with the throtle.

wgrandmont · 06-05-2009, 12:28 PM

Angelo s2k I also have an 07. Something is not set right on your car if you are having the rear end swing out at low speed. Check to make sure all the shipping spacers have been removed from your springs. Jack the car up remove the tires and run your hand arount the springs. I had shipping spaces left in one of my front springs. Otherwise check your rear toe in and tire pressure.

s2kx2 · 06-05-2009, 01:46 PM

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld

I am afraid I have to agree. I think the S2k is a bit of a handful to drive. I have spoken with a lot of guys about it and heard a lot of opinions. Sure, track time etc will help you manage it better. Track time will help with any car tho. The rear end is twitchy and the snap oversteer is quite real. Have heard a number of fixes to mitigate, but have not invested in one, other than alignment and tire setup.

I am no engineer, but I think part of the prob is weight. The distribution is fine, but the car is pretty heavy for an otherwise small sportscar. I came to the S2000 from a Boxster S (which I hate with a passion, but that's another opera in itself). Surprisingly, these cars weigh about the same. Yet the dimensions of the Boxster, wheel track, contact patch and certainly it's displacement, are that of a larger car. I have to admit tho, the Boxster was more predictable in high speed corners than the S2000. But it was also unpredictable when the engine blew apart at 33k mi. And there again, is that other opera.

Well, here is a posting by a guy that knows a lot more about it than I do. I found this just after buying my car. If your car is stock, this might be interesting to you too.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...rticle_id=3206

Java Junky · 06-05-2009, 03:46 PM

I'd heard stories about dealership prep people missin' spring spacerz, but never'd known any first-hand. Well, I guess that'z why there'z'a storiez eh?
'Godda agree that there'z somethin' fishy if'n '07 with traction control'z gettin' antsy.
Mr. Scott: the disclaimer ray if you would.
But, regardin' Stewie'z handlin' in general . . face itt gang, we weren't drawn'ta Stewie 'cause it drove like a hundred other piecez'a basic transportation. (N' we didn't jus' doo'itt 'cause we look good in'a raggtopp either.) We sprung the hard-earned 'cause we considered ourselvez upp'ta the task.
Aaay! You wanted'a sportscar? You godd'a sportscar. 'Damned good one too'z'a madder'a fact.
Itt ain't jus'a matter've jumpin' inn'itt'n puttin'itt on auto-pilot.
N'itt'z nodd'a ride whut'z forgivin' if you're not attentive to whut'z goin' on when yer behind the wheel.
When you start gettin'ta the outer extremitiez'a anythin', there'z'a price'da be paid'n Stewie'z no different. When yer startin'a push it, the price demanded by Stewie'z yer undivided attention.
Idd'ain't the minivan gang.

mlc · 06-05-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfkjeld

I am afraid I have to agree. I think the S2k is a bit of a handful to drive. I have spoken with a lot of guys about it and heard a lot of opinions. Sure, track time etc will help you manage it better. Track time will help with any car tho. The rear end is twitchy and the snap oversteer is quite real. Have heard a number of fixes to mitigate, but have not invested in one, other than alignment and tire setup.

I am no engineer, but I think part of the prob is weight. The distribution is fine, but the car is pretty heavy for an otherwise small sportscar. I came to the S2000 from a Boxster S (which I hate with a passion, but that's another opera in itself). Surprisingly, these cars weigh about the same. Yet the dimensions of the Boxster, wheel track, contact patch and certainly it's displacement, are that of a larger car. I have to admit tho, the Boxster was more predictable in high speed corners than the S2000. But it was also unpredictable when the engine blew apart at 33k mi. And there again, is that other opera.

Well, here is a posting by a guy that knows a lot more about it than I do. I found this just after buying my car. If your car is stock, this might be interesting to you too.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...rticle_id=3206

Please read to the very end of this it says that all of what he is saying is a 10/10. At 9/10 he says that the car is a dream to drive. Please see my earlier post about driving this car. Like Java said we didn't buy this car because we wanted the minivan experience.

I will once again use one of Java's fine examples of what as he calls it "Stewie" can do http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...25404894830688.

In the right hands this is one hell of fast car.

Kevin

05-28-2009, 09:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
JDMHonda Suzuka FTW Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 465	Rear end a little too happy So ive had my car for 2 and a half months now and im getting used to it fast. I noticed something weird today about my car. On the freeway going 65 miles per hour when i downshifted into 5th, the rear would go off to a side for just a second. Also, when i took it on some twisties on a local mountain, i took a turn at around 55 MPH and the rear kicked out. i $hit in my pants. I was wondering whether all S2k's are like this or because mines limp. My guess is that its either because my alignment isn't right (and it isnt) or its because i have different branded tires in the back BUT same specs. Anyone else have an S thats too @ss happy? __________________

05-28-2009, 09:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	It probably hasn't anything to do with your alignment JD. Stewie's a pretty sophisticated ride. When something is as finely tuned as Stewie is, very little input (sometimes barely noticeable) makes very big differences at the handling end of things. First off, if your tires and pressures are where they're suppose to be, that's always a good starting point. It's all about Stewie's attitude. Phil likez to stress how driving Stewie's all about smooth, and I couldn't agree with him more. *Any* change in Stewie's weight distribution (attitude) can cause major changes in handling. Rapid changes can cause big-time OH @&#!!!!s. When you're shifting (even while going in a straight line) you're letting up on the gas and that lets up on the squash of the rear suspension as the wheels go from propelling Stewie to just free-wheeling. There's also a bit of torque let-up going on as you allow the revs to drop as you make the shift. I figure that somewhere in all that attitude change lies your "going off to a side for a second." Now, as for corners: Stewie's always had a real rep for not taking lightly someone taking their foot out of it when they're in a corner. Power applied judiciously through a turn allows Stewie to shine and when you come out the other end you'll be giggling to yourself. Go into that same turn and too quickly let up on the gas (attitude: you've just messed with rear traction) and the smooth traction that your rear wheelz were* enjoying is history as you've again let up on the squash of the rear suspension as the rear wheels go from propelling to free-wheeling. Final tally has you getting up-close-and-personal with the landscape you were just motoring past. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room. Last edited by Java Junky; 05-28-2009 at 10:29 PM.

05-28-2009, 09:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	Oh yeah: x2'z right on'a money with the AP1 less forgivin' than the AP2. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

05-28-2009, 10:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
JDMHonda Suzuka FTW Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 465	Ok thanks a lot for the huge paragraph. I get what your saying. My tire pressures are at 32 at all corners and i dont have traction control for it to take care of wheelspin. Theres no change in weight distribution also because my car is bone stock. So what your saying Java is take the turns fast and dont take your foot off the gas? i didnt understand you so well back there. s2kx2 i get what your saying. And yes, i do come from a front wheel drive CR-V. So this has NOTHING to do with different branded and different design but same spec tires in the rear OR the alignment issue? __________________

05-28-2009, 10:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
philiam Senior Member, Literally Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: woodland hills, CA Posts: 2,735	The steering is quite quick. Beginners tend to over compensate and the next thing you know you're facing the other way. The S isn't all that tail happy. Try driving a rear engine car sometime. The car is balanced and once you learn to drive it you can control the back end. Slow down and the car is quite civilized. Get used to it and work your way up gradually. A great car does not a great driver make. __________________ .

05-28-2009, 10:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
s2kx2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 682	JDMHonda and Philiam, Why don't you two pair up and come on the drive this Saturday off of the 15 and Deer Springs road with the San Diego crew? Woodland Hills and Glendale are not that far from each other? We are going to Julian for breakfast up Mt. Palomar and it should be a pretty good turnout. Be nice to put a faces to the names. CHAZDAWG35 you gonna come play this weekend? __________________ "Political Correctness is a pathetically ignorant doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous agenda filled revisionist mainstream media, which holds forth fallacy as fact that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."

05-28-2009, 10:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
JDMHonda Suzuka FTW Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 465	Id actually love to come because ive never been to an S2000 meet/drive BUT its my 18th birthday and that happens only once. If it was next Saturday, id be first to sign up. __________________

05-28-2009, 10:57 PM	#9 (permalink)
J'sS2K The Car Camera Mount Guy Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,591	ok did you use heel-toe or rev-match downshift? __________________ So you're heading to the track and you want to record your sessions. PM me for an in-car camera mount. For everything else, you're on your own! www.getgopod.com

05-28-2009, 11:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
philiam Senior Member, Literally Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: woodland hills, CA Posts: 2,735	Sorry, can't make it. Thanks for the invite though. __________________ .

05-29-2009, 03:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
H20 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: CT, USA Posts: 754	I think different brand tires is a bad idea personally, but sometimes unavoidable. You have different sidewall flex. Tire pressures are very important right down to a pound or two. You might try 31/33 or something like that. Alignment is also very important. Everything is important on these cars. It shouldnt kick left when straight line shifting. Be carefull with it. You are only 18. What tires and sizes are you running? When things are not exactly right you need to be extra carefull!

05-29-2009, 05:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	JD, reread the tome. I actually redid'itt'n English fer yuh. N', obviously . . I ain't doon too good'a job'a gettin' whudd'I'm sayin' across (which should come'z no great surprise'da most). Whudd'I'm sayin'izz'att you actually *are* getting change in weight distribution'n weight distribution over our 4 iddy-biddy liddle patchez'a traction'z'all we gott. Think'a weight distribution'z translatin'a traction. Change the revs and you've got some amount'a torque-induced weight distribution. If you're in'a corner'n you change yer revz alot'n suddenly'n you've got a gedd'oud'a-yer-line-free-card (Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.) at best. We don' wanna think worst. If the road-level risez'r droppz under anythin' but all'a yer wheelz, you've got change in weight distribution. Come over'a rise quick'n have yer wheelz reacquire traction in anythin' other than the way you launched'n you'd bedder be payin' big-time attention, bu'chull get my drift. Itt'z all about the care'n feedin'a traction'n the maintainin' thereof. x2'z suggestion'uv'a serious drivin' school'z my first choice, but if you kin spend some *serious* learnin' time, makin' intensity increasez in *very* gradual incrementz, all the while workin' on yer concentration on jus' how much available traction'z changin' as yer out puttin' Stewie through'er pacez . . . (jus' like most'a the rest'uv us did, I might add), you're gonna find the "surprisez"da be *much* less frequent'n the enjoyment'da be of the highest order. (You mus' be new 'roun'eeze partz stranger. You thought that last'un wuzz'a long paragraph?) Good luck JD. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

05-29-2009, 06:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
jagg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Endless Mountains Posts: 3,115	I'm runnin' on 4 baloney skins........traction galore!!! OP......Stewie don't hold the road so good when it's out of alignment. Attitude's off, and that's bad. jagg

05-29-2009, 06:14 AM	#16 (permalink)
mlc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 324	Ahhh...is there anthing better then just a nice steady amount of gas into a corner and the feeling of the rear of the car just settle in and bite. It seems to say "is that all you got". Driven correctly this car is pretty amazing. I would still suggest that you get any tire and alignment issues straghtened out before you start to enjoy the car. Kevin Last edited by mlc; 05-29-2009 at 06:29 AM.

05-29-2009, 06:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	Sure! Everybody jus' pudd'inn yer one'n two linerz'n make me look even more like the alphabet-spewin', long-winded weenie I am. Real palz. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

05-29-2009, 06:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jessa1200 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: TX Posts: 564	this was my first RWD car and mine has been a$$ happy 3 times while I was driivng and another 2 or so while my bf was driving, it took me sometime to get use to it and sometimes I forget and it gets a$$ happy mine just happens to be in front of EVERYONE, but eh whatever, idc as long as I dont hit anyone its fun!!! lol __________________ ~Jessa~ "To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to change you, is the greatest accomplishment." Emerson

05-29-2009, 07:30 AM	#19 (permalink)
Swingle1 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 717	OP, welcome to the club. At thge end of the day, you've got a lot to learn. I don't mean that to come across as condescending. Everyone started out knowing nothing. Most of us (at least the smart ones) are STILL learning. Suspension: Java's stringing together pearls of wisdom. Inertia and torque change everything. Different setups (tires, shocks, springs, etc) perform differently under different conditions. Driving technique. You're a relatively new driver with little or no previous experience with a rwd car-- let alone a car with Stewie's performance characteristics. The good news is that the lessons, as long as you're smart enough to pick the proper time and place, are an absolute blast. Take your time. Don't try to be a hero in front of your buddies (or even worse, your girlfriend). I've been driving for close to 30 years. The S is not my first rwd car. But after 3 years, I'm still learning how to drive it. But that's one of the main reasons I love this car... I've got more lessons in front of me than you can shake a stick at! School is fun.

05-29-2009, 08:14 AM	#20 (permalink)
JDMHonda Suzuka FTW Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 465	Thanks a lot guys. I completely understand what you guys are trying to say now. im just gonna start taking it slowly and leanring it throughout the drive. Ill get my alignment fixed. And thanks Java, for explaining it again in english. H20, im running the stock tire sizes on AP2 V1 rims. How do i know the alignment is messed up, because my steering wheel isnt perfectly straight when my wheels are pointing straight. Also, it puls to the left at high speeds. This might be because of mismatched tire brands im not sure though. thats why i want to come to one of the s2000 meets to have another s2 owner drive my car to see if its any different. __________________

05-29-2009, 09:13 AM	#21 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	JD, until yuh gedd'a good, matched sett'a hoopz onn'er . . everythin'z preddy much speculation, y'know? Yer life'n the livez'a those who you allow in the co-pilotz seat'r ridin' on yer hoopz JD. 'Most emphatically *not* the area where yuh wanna cheap-out. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

05-29-2009, 09:52 AM	#23 (permalink)
Kalm_Traveler Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA Posts: 337	hahah!!! was reading this and my jaw dropped at your first reply, JJ!! Thought I was in another world for a minute or two as I read down the post and noticed that it was in sophistimacated regular ol' english! JDMHonda - if you have 'OEM' tire sizes but not the Potenza S02 tires themselves, you should be running wider tires. There's a sticky in this part of the forum I believe.

05-29-2009, 06:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
jagg Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Endless Mountains Posts: 3,115	I'm with you Vez. I run softer on the ass end. Feels good. Man, I eat rear tires. Fronts wear well. jagg Last edited by jagg; 05-29-2009 at 06:04 PM. Reason: just realized how gay this post sounds. Ha Ha. I ain't changin' it now.!!

05-29-2009, 06:52 PM	#28 (permalink)
mlc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 324	Everyone should drive the original MY00. They didn't play with the setup in this car. Bigger sway bar in the rear then the front. The whole package was setup for oversteer...on purpose like it should be. Yes you turn the steering wheel to turn the car but you drive the car with the gas pedal. I put the UK alignment in it to settle the rear some but I drive the car with my a$$. And when you do it right there is almost no better feeling in the world. Kevin

05-29-2009, 07:26 PM	#29 (permalink)
philiam Senior Member, Literally Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: woodland hills, CA Posts: 2,735	One other thing. Make sure you're in the lower gear before starting a turn. Shifting in the middle of a turn will make for an interesting ride. __________________ .

05-29-2009, 08:14 PM	#30 (permalink)
s2kx2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 682	+ 1 Kevin QUOTE=mlc;93304]Everyone should drive the original MY00. They didn't play with the setup in this car. Bigger sway bar in the rear then the front. The whole package was setup for oversteer...on purpose like it should be. Yes you turn the steering wheel to turn the car but you drive the car with the gas pedal. I put the UK alignment in it to settle the rear some but I drive the car with my a$$. And when you do it right there is almost no better feeling in the world. Kevin[/quote] __________________ "Political Correctness is a pathetically ignorant doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous agenda filled revisionist mainstream media, which holds forth fallacy as fact that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."

05-29-2009, 08:51 PM	#32 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	Yep. 'Run slightly higher up front'n lower in'a back'da keep the oversteer monster . . well . . if not in check, at least slightly hamstrung. N', x2? 'Yer so right. There'z damned liddle whut pleasez me more'n doon'a corner proper-like. (Though, one'a the thingz more pleasin'z that clear spin-out room when fer whutever reason traction duzz'a disappearin' act . . . 'z happenz now'n ag'in.) __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

06-04-2009, 06:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
sfkjeld Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: San Francisco, Ca Posts: 252	I am afraid I have to agree. I think the S2k is a bit of a handful to drive. I have spoken with a lot of guys about it and heard a lot of opinions. Sure, track time etc will help you manage it better. Track time will help with any car tho. The rear end is twitchy and the snap oversteer is quite real. Have heard a number of fixes to mitigate, but have not invested in one, other than alignment and tire setup. I am no engineer, but I think part of the prob is weight. The distribution is fine, but the car is pretty heavy for an otherwise small sportscar. I came to the S2000 from a Boxster S (which I hate with a passion, but that's another opera in itself). Surprisingly, these cars weigh about the same. Yet the dimensions of the Boxster, wheel track, contact patch and certainly it's displacement, are that of a larger car. I have to admit tho, the Boxster was more predictable in high speed corners than the S2000. But it was also unpredictable when the engine blew apart at 33k mi. And there again, is that other opera. Well, here is a posting by a guy that knows a lot more about it than I do. I found this just after buying my car. If your car is stock, this might be interesting to you too. http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...rticle_id=3206

06-05-2009, 12:24 PM	#36 (permalink)
wgrandmont Oversteer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 169	I didn't catch what year you have but the 07's and on have vehicle stability control, so you have to work pretty hard on the street to get the back end coming around. I had a precision alignment done for autocross purposes and the shop set the rear toe in at .25 degrees in instead of .25" (inches) in. I had never had any problems with the rear getting away from me until then. Even with a heavy front sway bar once the rear traction broke the back end just snapped around with no way to save it. Once I set the rear toe in to .25" I was able to lighten up on the front sway bar and have had no further problems. Oh, and I agree with whom ever said you steer with the throtle.

06-05-2009, 12:28 PM	#37 (permalink)
wgrandmont Oversteer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 169	Angelo s2k I also have an 07. Something is not set right on your car if you are having the rear end swing out at low speed. Check to make sure all the shipping spacers have been removed from your springs. Jack the car up remove the tires and run your hand arount the springs. I had shipping spaces left in one of my front springs. Otherwise check your rear toe in and tire pressure.

06-05-2009, 03:46 PM	#39 (permalink)
Java Junky Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Joisey Posts: 6,402	I'd heard stories about dealership prep people missin' spring spacerz, but never'd known any first-hand. Well, I guess that'z why there'z'a storiez eh? 'Godda agree that there'z somethin' fishy if'n '07 with traction control'z gettin' antsy. Mr. Scott: the disclaimer ray if you would. But, regardin' Stewie'z handlin' in general . . face itt gang, we weren't drawn'ta Stewie 'cause it drove like a hundred other piecez'a basic transportation. (N' we didn't jus' doo'itt 'cause we look good in'a raggtopp either.) We sprung the hard-earned 'cause we considered ourselvez upp'ta the task. Aaay! You wanted'a sportscar? You *godd'a* sportscar. 'Damned good one too'z'a madder'a fact. Itt ain't jus'a matter've jumpin' inn'itt'n puttin'itt on auto-pilot. N'itt'z nodd'a ride whut'z forgivin' if you're not attentive to whut'z goin' on when yer behind the wheel. When you start gettin'ta the outer extremitiez'a *anythin'*, there'z'a price'da be paid'n Stewie'z no different. When yer startin'a push it, the price demanded by Stewie'z yer undivided attention. Idd'ain't the minivan gang. __________________ In life-long pursuit of that most mythic of beasts: the ever-elusive perfect corner. Well . . . that, r' at least a whole lodda clear spin-out room.

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