Alignment woes

[MutantCheese]

Took my car to the local Goodyear shop (recommended by tech at Superior Honda in Harvey, LA).

I'm lowered 1" on Eibach springs. Had 2 new OEM tires installed in the rear and requested Spec alignment.

First, they F'd up my front lip, denied it, then I had to drive my car up to the ramps and show them what they did and how the damage matched perfectly with their ramps. The damage was obvious even to them. (pending damage claim through Goodyear)

Second, Now at high speeds, the car feels unstable. It has never been like that before. Always dead on and gave confidence at higher speeds.

Third, my steering wheel is slightly off center now, not much, but just enough to annoy me.

I paid $170 to mount/balance 2 rear tires and a full alignment, oh and they threw the f'd up lip in for free.

Goodyear should be contacting me about the claim next week. Should i request a full refund of my alignment cost, plus damage reimbursement for the lip? I'm pretty pissed about this as I'm sure you can imagine.

I'll also be taking this up with the tech at Superior who owns and S2000 and recommended the shop.

See damage below. There is a scratch on the drivers side that lines up perfectly with the drivers side ramp. I think the lip would have cleared, but the parking lot concrete has settled about an inch lower than the shop slab.

[J'sS2K]

You said that scratch is on the drivers side. Why did you take a picture of the passengers side. I cannot see any damage.

[MutantCheese]

There is a huge dent/scratch on the pax side. If you look closely in the crappy iphone pic you can see it even with the ramp edge.

[TheCarGuy2021]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

Should i request a full refund of my alignment cost, plus damage reimbursement for the lip?

What I would do.

[MutantCheese]

a better pic of the pax side damage

[J'sS2K]

oh crap...i'd be pissed...those reckless bastards.

i'd ask for reimbursement of the damaged lip. if you could prove the car is unstable at high speeds and the steering wheel is off center after the service was performed then ask for a refund too.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by TheCarGuy2021

What I would do.

x 2

[MutantCheese]

Can someone give me the optimum alignment specs for a street driven AP2? I have been find too many differing specs.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

Can someone give me the optimum alignment specs for a street driven AP2? I have been find too many differing specs.

Cheese:

The most conservative way to go is with the OEM specs. They are on Page 203 of the Owner's Manual. Post back if you have no Owner's Manual.

Marrk

[MutantCheese]

Got it. Actually it's on page 235 of the 2008 manual.

[MutantCheese]

According to the manual, these are the recommended specs. I will try to get the specs that Goodyear used tomorrow.

Toe:
front: 0.0 (0.0mm)
rear: in .015 in (3.7mm)
in .022 in (5.6mm)

Camber
front: -0°30'
rear: -1°30'

Caster
front: 6°

[Marrk]

Good idea.

BTW, having mismatched tires is not helping anything, but it shouldn't throw your ride out of whack completely.

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

According to the manual, these are the recommended specs. I will try to get the specs that Goodyear used tomorrow.

Toe:
front: 0.0 (0.0mm)
rear: in .015 in (3.7mm)
in .022 in (5.6mm)

Camber
front: -0°30'
rear: -1°30'

Caster
front: 6°

[MutantCheese]

What mismatched tires? I have 2 new OEM tires on the rear. My front tires have 50% thread left. That should not make that big of a difference.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

What mismatched tires? I have 2 new OEM tires on the rear. My front tires have 50% thread left. That should not make that big of a difference.

I agree, Cheese. I thought there was a greater difference between yr fronts and yr backs. Sorry.

[Honda007]

Sorry to hear cheese, Should have requested the spec. sheet, if they didn't give it to you. Similiar thing happened to me at an STS. Deffinitely going to Honda for the rest of my alignments. And yeah get a refund show them the steering wheel is off. Sounds like the rear wheels may have been balanced incorrectly or at the low speed specs., They usually have a low speed balance <60mph and or a High speed balance 60mph+. Maybe T6 or TCG will jump in.

[MutantCheese]

Oh and I specifically asked for stick on weights and the Service manager said "oh we won't hammer on any weights" and guess what, they used stick on weights AND hammer on crap weights on the inside of the wheels...such ass clowns.

[Honda007]

I don't understand how people who work in the automotive repair buisness don't understand the care we want and the care we take on our cars.

[MutantCheese]

I agree, especially when you roll up in a pristine ride like mine. It's not like I pulled up in some riced out slammed, busted up, with off colored body kit (insert car make here). My sh!t is clean.

[Honda007]

LOL, I agree completely.

[skatepozer23]

I heard somewhere that the UK spec alignment is better for road course racing. Is that true?

and if so what are the UK alignment specs

PS. Sorry to rob your thread. That really sucks and id definately try to get a full refund

[s2k01]

The alignment shop I went to asked if I wanted the us or uk specs... Apparently a lot of people prefer the uk specs..

[MutantCheese]

I think the UK specs are only for AP1's correct?

[skatepozer23]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

I think the UK specs are only for AP1's correct?

Why wouldnt UK specs not work for an AP2. It pretty much the same car plus 2mm of bore and bigger wheels

Actually would the new softer springs in Ap2 not make the UK spec work? I doubt it but lets get T6 to comment

[MutantCheese]

Wheel sizes are also different. But I don't know.

[s2k01]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

I think the UK specs are only for AP1's correct?

[MutantCheese]

I went back and got a printout.

Front: Left

actual before
..... -0.8° camber
5.9° 6.2° caster
..... -0.37° toe
..... 10.1° SAI
9.3° 9.3° included angle

Front: Right

actual before
0.6° -0.9° camber
5.9° 6.1° caster
..... -0.33° toe
10.0° 10.1° SAI
9.5° 9.5° included angle

FRONT

actual before
..... 0.1° cross camber
0.0° 0.1° cross caster
..... -0.3° cross SAI
..... -0.70° total toe
..... ..... cross turn diff.

Rear: Left

actual before
-1.7° -1.6° camber
..... 0.32° toe

Rear: Right

actual before
1.7° 2.3° camber
..... 0.22° toe

REAR

actual before
0.0° 0.7° cross camber
0.34° 0.54° total toe
.... 0.05° thrust angle

[lonestarbuzz]

what about your tire pressure in your rears? if mine is off or over filled, i feel like stewie gets a little twitchy. you clearly don't trust the shop, so why trust them to fill to the appropriate tire pressure.

[MutantCheese]

As soon as I got home from the shop I checked my tire pressures. The rear where high like 40 psi. I lowered them to 32 psi before I went on my test drive and noted the twitchiness.

[lonestarbuzz]

hrm. 40 psi, wow.

[MutantCheese]

As soon as I got in my car when I picked it up I could tell that the pressure was high. Don't they at least look at the door sticker to check recommended pressures...geez.

[dezignpro04]

I feel your pain. My experience wasn't as bad when I went to Tire Kingdom, but irked me. When I went in they mounted and balanced my tires. I was in a rush (bad mistake) and jumped in the car and went off when they were done.

Things didn't seem right. The driving was off and I felt like I had less traction.

Pulled over and found out they mounted the rear rims up from and the front rims in the rear. I got a partial refund even though they didn't technically mess anything up. You should get everything back IMO!

GL

[lonestarbuzz]

wow, that's terrible, Dez!

the guy who did mine was great. he owns an s2000 and took great care of mine. he even asked me what tire pressures i wanted.

[spfortjohn]

Man that is jacked up. I would diff want the cost of a new lip and install. Get a quote from Honda.

[XenoGears]

Yeah. I learned my lesson a LONG time ago with Goodyear. I'll never shop there/take my car there again.

Long story cut short:
2-3 years ago needed new master cylinder for 95 Accord. Took it to Goodyear got quoted $1000 for cylinder + install. Didn't shop around and took offer. Year later cylinder had a crack (went down halfway so master cylinder could only be half full) and leaked brake fluid. Found out when I went to get an oil change and they replaced some fluids in my car (I was in the car while they were doing it.). Manager finds out and makes a call. Tell me $150 for cylinder $50 for installation. Shat my pants for being so cheap!

Yes I know I should have shopped around but my brakes were soo bad that I had just wanted it fixed. How bad? My brake pedal went all the way to the floor. All the way. They stole $800 from me. Thats why I'll never go there again. I'd rather trust a car salesman than Goodyear. Avoid Goodyear like you would avoid shopping at Best Buy, trusting AIG, trusting a car salesman, being a Los Angeles Raider fan, buying a Ford, and trusting in the US government.

See if you can get your lip reimbursed. Try to get a quote from Honda. If Goodyear refuses to pay, try talking to a lawer about either pressing charges or taking them to small claims court. It helps to have a picture of your front lip the day BEFORE you took it to Goodyear.

Ripoffreport.com. Post a post proclaiming what they did to your car. Put down their address and explain exactly what happened. Maybe write a letter to your attorney general? <--- Can anyone help me with this? Would this work in getting his money back?

Yellowpages.com write a review for that Goodyear. Cheese you have the power of the internet. USE IT! Review that Goodyear and put it as one star. Try to destroy them on the internet. It's worth a shot.

[MutantCheese]

Goodyear claims dept just called me. They were very apologetic and want to make things right. He asked if I had gotten any repair estimates yet. I said no and really would rather have the lip replaced. I told him a new lip is $366 plus shipping and he said as long as it was under $500.00 that he should be able to get it approved, but asked that I please also submit at least one repair estimate with my price.

He asked if there was anything else that he could do, and I said that I was not happy with the work that was performed, namely the alignment. He again apologized and asked that I would like to get it rechecked by someone, that I also submit that bill for reimbursement.

We shall see if they have the balls to back up these statements. I'm going to try to get a repair estimate on my way home tonight and submit everything, except for the re-alignment charges tomorrow.

[skatepozer23]

if you repair it they are just gonna fill in the damage with putty and repaint it.

Id definately push for a new lip

[MutantCheese]

Honestly, if they don't want to replace it for some reason, I'm just going to take the repair money, buy a new lip and sell my old one.

[MutantCheese]

Got my new alignment done today. Chris at Brandt Goodyear in NO East spent 2.5 hours working on my car. He test drove it before he started. Then he test drove it after his initial settings. He wasn't satisfied, so he put it back on the rack, set everything up again and adjusted where it needed. He test drove it again and was pleased with the outcome. The car drives like it's supposed to now. No more twitchiness at high speeds. Here are my before and after settings.

I also got my release form from Goodyear claims, for the full replacement cost of my underbody spoiler. Now i need to submit the realignment charges. Hopefully I'll get that reimbursed as well.

[wgrandmont]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

Can someone give me the optimum alignment specs for a street driven AP2? I have been find too many differing specs.

I had some specs for autocross which I posted on this site. However, I just put my alignment back to the factor specs. I autocross, and it seems to me that Honda pretty much got it right. You can get the honda specs on line. However, from memory front camber -.5 degrees. Front toe 0", front caster 6 degrees. Rear camber -1.5 degrees, rear toe .15" in.

[wgrandmont]

Originally Posted by MutantCheese

Got my new alignment done today. Chris at Brandt Goodyear in NO East spent 2.5 hours working on my car. He test drove it before he started. Then he test drove it after his initial settings. He wasn't satisfied, so he put it back on the rack, set everything up again and adjusted where it needed. He test drove it again and was pleased with the outcome. The car drives like it's supposed to now. No more twitchiness at high speeds. Here are my before and after settings.

I also got my release form from Goodyear claims, for the full replacement cost of my underbody spoiler. Now i need to submit the realignment charges. Hopefully I'll get that reimbursed as well.




Looks like they really botched the first alignmnet. You might find you want a little more toe in on the rear, but only if it seems to kick out a little to easily.